Quotations and Literature Forum

It is currently Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:12 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 10:18 am 
Offline
New member
New member

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:27 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN
Who said "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still."

_________________
"Television, a medium, so-called, because it is neither rare nor well done." Ernie Kovacs


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 3:02 pm 
Offline
QuoteMaster
QuoteMaster

Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 3:29 am
Posts: 201
Location: Australia
Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still.
Dale Carnegie
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/autho ... negie.html

This page of excerpts from "How to Win Friends and Influence People' by Dale Carnegie has it too, as part of this excerpt;

Why prove to a man he is wrong? Is that going to make him like you? Why not let him save face? He didn't ask for your opinion. He didn't want it. Why argue with him? You can't win an argument, because if you lose, you lose it; and if you win it, you lose it. Why? You will feel fine. But what about him? You have made him feel inferior, you hurt his pride, insult his intelligence, his judgment, and his self-respect, and he'll resent your triumph. That will make him strike back, but it will never make him want to change his mind. "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 3:02 pm 
Offline
QuoteMaster
QuoteMaster

Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:48 pm
Posts: 709
Location: Slovakia
"Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still."
~Dale Carnegie (American lecturer, author, 1888-1955)

_________________
"Follow me," the wise man said, but he walked behind...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 3:03 pm 
Offline
QuoteMaster
QuoteMaster

Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:48 pm
Posts: 709
Location: Slovakia
lol we posted at the same time :D

_________________
"Follow me," the wise man said, but he walked behind...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 5:11 pm 
Offline
QuoteMaster
QuoteMaster

Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 3:29 am
Posts: 201
Location: Australia
RiMMER wrote:
lol we posted at the same time :D

:) This calls for a quote - something about great minds or great timing? :?:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 5:26 am 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2002 3:01 pm
Posts: 1681
It would be more correct to simply say that Carnegie merely quoted a proverb on page 112 of his "How to Win Friends and Influence People."
Quote:
“Why prove to a man he is wrong? Is that going to make him like you? Why not let him save his face? He didn’t ask for your opinion. He didn’t want it. Why argue with him? Always avoid the acute angle.

During my youth, I had argued with my brother about everything under the Milky Way. When I went to college, I studied logic and argumentation, and went in for debating contests. Talk about being from Missouri, I was born there. I had to be shown. Later, I taught debating and argumentation in New York; and once, I am ashamed to admit, I planned to write a book on the subject …

… Since then, I have listened to, criticize, engaged in, and watched the effects of thousands of arguments. As a result of it all, I have come to the conclusion that there is only one way under high heaven to get the best of an argument – and that is to avoid it. Avoid it as you would avoid rattlesnakes and earthquakes.

Nine times out of ten, an argument ends with each of the contestants being more firmly convinced than ever that he is absolutely right …

… You can’t win an argument. You can’t because if you lose it, you lose it; and if you win it, you lose it. Why? Well, suppose you triumph over the other man and shoot his argument full of holes and prove that he is non compos mentis. Then what? You will feel fine. But what about him? You will have made him feel inferior. You have hurt his pride. He will resent your triumph. And – …

… “A man convinced against his will
Is of the same opinion still.”

. . . Real salesmanship isn’t argument. It isn’t anything even remotely like argument. The human mind isn’t changed that way.”

~ Dale Carnegie, How to Win Friends and Influence People, p. 112.
www.fas.nus.edu.sg/philo/PH1101EGEM1004/ppt/howto2.ppt

It is attributed to Robert Burton, Anatomy of Melancholy (1621) --Democritus to the Reader (p. 35) at
http://www.worldofquotes.com/author/Robert-Burton/2/
But I had trouble finding it (and finally gave up) in an etext of it at
"let us give God thanks, that no man is compelled to live against his will"
http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/1/0/8/0/10800/10800.txt

He that complies against his will,
Is of his own opinion still,
Which he may adhere to, yet disown,
For reasons to himself best known.
~ Samuel Butler, Hudibras (pt. III, canto III, l. 547) [written between 1660 and 1680]
http://www.worldofquotes.com/topic/Will/1/

I will explain to you, I replied. A resolution may go out of a man's mind either with his will or against his will; with his will when he gets rid of a falsehood and learns better, against his will whenever he is deprived of a truth.
~ Plato, The Republic
http://www.molloy.edu/academic/philosop ... 3b_txt.htm
Quote:
Herbert W. Armstrong often said, "People want to be right, but don't want to do right." He also quoted a proverb from Benjamin Franklin's Poor Richard's Almanac: "A person convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."
http://cgg.org/index.cfm/page/literatur ... ARTB/k/254

German proverb
http://www.lindatellingtonjones.com/tteamfood.shtml
This website attributes the saying to Lawrence J. Peter
http://www.wiseoldsayings.com/wosdirectorya1.htm
But this webpage gives his quote as being slightly different:
“A man convinced against his will is not convinced.”
http://www.creativequotations.com/one/17.htm
Attributed to Lincoln
http://www.godswordtowomen.org/patriarchy.htm
Attributed to Twain
http://www.focusonthekingdom.org/47.htm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 3:41 am 
Offline
QuoteMaster
QuoteMaster

Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:48 pm
Posts: 709
Location: Slovakia
I could never get the meaning of your posts thenostromo, sorry for that :?

_________________
"Follow me," the wise man said, but he walked behind...


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dorbweeds and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group