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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:52 am 
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QuoteMaster
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The Beatles were right: all you need is love.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:45 am 
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DedeKorkut
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Fuzuli, a Turkish classical age poet (considered equivalent of Shakespeare in Turkish literature) said:

"Aşk imiş her ne var ise alemde
İlim bir kil û kâl imiş ancak."

"I have learnt that it is love what exists in this world
The thing that they call "knowledge" is just a street gossip."

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"God is a comedian, playing to an audience too afraid to laugh."
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:59 pm 
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QuoteMaster
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That is wonderful.

This reminds me of this:
http://www.quotationspage.com/forum/vie ... 8b24223311

It occurred to me: my response was, "Love is an act of the will." The question was about commitment - arrow said he could not imagine love without commitment. Commitment is an act of the will. It is active, not passive.

The "what is love" discussion confused me. Like I said to Tonyukuk, it is a semantics game. If what I am describing is NOT love, then what is it? Let's call a piano a tuba, and a tuba a piano.

The tuba has 88 keys.
The piano is made of brass.

Great - tuba/ piano whatever. IT HAS 88 KEYS.

Ah, sweet rambling. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:41 pm 
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QuoteMaster
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Just try these:

Is anger an act of will?

OR is stifling an angry reaction the actual act of will?

Is sorrow an act of will?

OR is controlling your sadness the actual act of will?

Is joy an act of will?

OR is expressing it or sharing it the actual act of will?


All these emotions happen as a natural reaction. Are not how you treat them your acts of will?

Why should love be different?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:24 pm 
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QuoteMaster
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This is what I think you are saying:

We just feel how we feel. I know I'm not supposed to love her, but I do. I can't help falling in love with you. I can't stop loving you. The flip side would be: I wish I could love her, but I don't. You've lost that loving feeling. The thrill is gone.

Is this correct?

It would also be true that the control that we have, when we feel love, is the degree to which we submit to it, suppress it, or repress it. That is, our willful response.

Is this correct?

This can also be applied to the examples you provided: anger, sorrow, and joy.

We can't help it when we feel angry. We just do. But we can submit to it by totally losing our steam, or control it by taking deep breaths, or bottle it up by ignoring it and storing it.

We can't help it when we feel sorrowful. We just do. But we can submit to it by crying, or control it by hiding the tears, or bottle it up by being ignoring it and acting happy.

We can't help it when we feel joyful. We just do. But we can submit to it by singing Hallelujah, or control it by taking it in stride, or bottle it up by containing it.

So because these reactions are natural, then we - as the 'receiver' of these emotions - are not the cause, and are not held accountable in producing them. Rather, the stimulus is; and we are sensitive to this stimulus, as its receptor. Further, the only role of our will and/or reason in experiencing these emotions is not our reaction (the subjective experience), but rather our response to the reaction.

Therefore, love is not an act of the will.

Is this correct?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:50 am 
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Tommy GS wrote:
Is this correct?


Absolutely, completely spot on correct.

(The stimulus is certainly accountable, but may be unaware that they are stimulating any of those emotions.)

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The most wasted of all days is one without laughter.
e e cummings (1894 - 1962)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:27 pm 
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:D :D Noticed you have to sneak music in everywhere :D :D

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The most wasted of all days is one without laughter.
e e cummings (1894 - 1962)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:38 am 
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QuoteMaster
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:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Me???



Ok. I understand your position entirely. Now, let me pick a few bones... when I have the time.... :x


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:38 pm 
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QuoteMaster
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Tommy GS wrote:
We just feel how we feel.

We can't help it when we feel angry. We just do. But we can submit to it by totally losing our steam, or control it by taking deep breaths, or bottle it up by ignoring it and storing it.



And how we react, be it by losing our steam, or by taking deep breaths, or bottling it up, or any other reaction - does this not have to do with how we were taught to deal with the situation? Do we really just 'feel how we feel', or is how we feel influenced by who our parents are, who are friends are, and all of our other influences? In other words, how much 'free will' do we actually have? Do we really understand what 'love' is? Perhaps 'love' is just a response which is connected to our DNA and our cultural influences?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:56 pm 
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The basic emotions like love and anger can probably be distantly connected to our survival instincts ie reproduction and defence, although sorrow and joy are refinements a long way down the path from there and there are myriad shades in between. This is one reason why I believe those basic feelings are not an act of will but just happen.

I do agree with Anajo that our mental and physical reactions to those feelings ( ie what I see as the acts of will) are very influenced by our upbringing and culture. For example, look at national stereotypes which are recognisable - excitable Italians, calm Dutch, disciplined Germans, reserved English etc.

There are grains of truth in all of these attributable to those particular cultures and may show up sometimes in how they deal with emotions, although that is a very broad brush and each individual will have a heap of other influences affecting their behaviour.

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The most wasted of all days is one without laughter.
e e cummings (1894 - 1962)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:10 pm 
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Let us make clear something else: in your opinion: is a love a feeling? or, rather, an emotion?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:01 pm 
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QuoteMaster
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Tommy GS wrote:
Let us make clear something else: in your opinion: is a love a feeling? or, rather, an emotion?


Hmmm. I don't see all that much difference between emotions and feelings. What is the difference in your opinion?

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Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.
~Bertrand Russell


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:04 pm 
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gumtree wrote:
I do agree with Anajo that our mental and physical reactions to those feelings ( ie what I see as the acts of will)


Gumtree,
I find that our mental and physical reactions are not based on will because it seems to me that our reactions are the results of our influences and DNA.

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Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.
~Bertrand Russell


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:01 pm 
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Sorry Anajo , misread you- will have to think a bit to sort all this out .

Agree with you re emotions and feelings - what is the difference? Except perhaps emotions are "abstract" feelings as opposed to cold, hot etc being "physical" feelings. We seem to be spliting hairs a bit here.

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The most wasted of all days is one without laughter.
e e cummings (1894 - 1962)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:23 am 
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QuoteMaster
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All feelings originate outside the physical embodiment.
All emotions originate within the physical embodiment.

Feelings are as a result of an external stimulus.
Emotions are those feelings processed and integrated with our very selves.

Feelings feed our emotions. We feel something and we are moved. (Movement. Motion. Emotion.) Emotion has to do with our brains, perception, environment, &c.

But our emotions do not feed our feelings.

Another question: in your opinion: is it possible to be angry at someone you love? If so, isn't that contradictory?


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