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 Post subject: A logical syllogism
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:54 pm 
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Logic is objective by definition.
The subjectivist used logic to describe reality.
Therefore,
Even the subjectivist assumes an objective reality.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:56 pm 
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In searching for arguments in support of relativism, I found this quote against it:

"My opinion is: Truth must be absolute and that you, Mr. Protagoras, are absolutely in error. Since this is indeed my opinion, then you must concede that it is true according to your philosophy."

Socrates. Truth + humor.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:33 am 
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But that quote is actually a paraphrasing of Plato, probably from Theaetetus.
It takes nothing away from its validity, just checking in with some clarification.

Quote:
Socrates: Shall I tell you, Theodorus, what amazes me in your acquaintance Protagoras?
Theodorus: What is it?
Socrates: I am charmed with his doctrine, that what appears is to each one, but I wonder that he did not begin his book on Truth with a declaration that a pig or a dog-faced baboon, or some other yet stranger monster which has sensation, is the measure of all things; then he might have shown a magnificent contempt for our opinion of him by informing us at the outset that while we were reverencing him like a God for his wisdom he was no better than a tadpole, not to speak of his fellow-men-would not this have produced an over-powering effect? For if truth is only sensation, and no man can discern another's feelings better than he, or has any superior right to determine whether his opinion is true or false, but each, as we have several times repeated, is to himself the sole judge, and everything that he judges is true and right, why, my friend, should Protagoras be preferred to the place of wisdom and instruction, and deserve to be well paid, and we poor ignoramuses have to go to him, if each one is the measure of his own wisdom? Must he not be talking ad captandum in all this? I say nothing of the ridiculous predicament in which my own midwifery and the whole art of dialectic is placed; for the attempt to supervise or refute the notions or opinions of others would be a tedious and enormous piece of folly, if to each man his own are right; and this must be the case if Protagoras Truth is the real truth, and the philosopher is not merely amusing himself by giving oracles out of the shrine of his book.
~ Plato, Theaetetus
http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/theatu.html


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:48 am 
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Thank you for clarifying. I also learned what "ad captandum" is!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:06 pm 
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I confess I had to look it up. I'm not really too sure if I really clarified much; it's just that I am always intrigued by quotations that are ascribed to Socrates. Many people probably don't realize that Socrates left no written works. Almost everything famous that is attributed to him was actually written by Plato.
Your originating post on this thread is a mind-twister. I'm just going to take your word for it that it's true.
The aspects of subjectivity and objectivity are things that are very current for me, since I am taking a course on Educational Evaluation and the concepts of validity and reliability are ever-present in the assessment process of education. When a student is tested, am I able to be subjective or objective with the test results?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:13 pm 
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You did clarify - obviously the quote was, as you said, paraphrased, given the source you provided. And you're right - Socrates never wrote anything, it is all in Plato's dialogues.

"Objective truth vs Subjective truth" is a subject I have MUCH interest in. I never get tired of discussing it. (Surprise, surprise. :P) As for the original post, I suppose you could take my word for it, but it's much more valuable to understand the proposition, so that you can make your own informed decision.

If I say, "No, sir, there are no such thing as absolutes. Everything is relative." Then you could say, "Really? Including that statement? Isn't THAT an objective statement?"

In order for the relativist to argue against objectivism, he must make an objective statement. "There are no absolutes" is an objective statement. That is self-contradictory nonsense.

Re: your course on Educational Evaluation, I was JUST listening to this yesterday and today! I read an article, and listened to one or two lectures by Dallas Willard. If you enjoy boring people who tickle your brain, he would be one to check out. That is, regarding philosophy and acadamia.

In answer your question, directly: objective.

http://www.dwillard.org/articles/artview.asp?artID=66 is one source.

He is also found on the Veritas Forum.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:24 am 
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Good logic. Thank for to clarifying.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:35 pm 
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Nod of the head.


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