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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 9:15 pm 
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QuoteMaster
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What difference is there if i stole 5 cents and you did with 10 cents Tom? It's the same sin. The amount may vary and the punishments differ but it's the same offense- robbery. That's the reason why i don't think the distinction of sin even matters. Do you believe that one of the robbers Jesus forgave in the Calvary joined him in heaven right away as so promised by Jesus? If so, where does purgatory now come in?

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 12:38 am 
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I am sorry, arrow, but the data we have seems to point elsewhere.

Jesus answered, "Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin." - John 19:11

And again 1 Jn 5:16-17 says, "If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death."

There are other examples in scripture about the degrees of sin, as well, though I imagine it would be superfluous to list them.

You yourself have given reason enough why sins are different: the difference between 10 cents and 5 cents is still 5 cents, regardless of the crime. Because there are countless other factors, such as intention, mental capacity, and other circumstances. These circumstances might be mitigating, or they might not. But to whom much is given, much is entrusted. And to whom little is given, little is entrusted. When it comes to these matters, this is for God, in his infinite mercy and justice, to decide.

Do I believe that the repentant robber joined Jesus in heaven right away? I don't know. That is left for speculation. If so, then I would speculate that the man's suffering on the cross was enough to pay his debts, so as to avoid final purification. Or maybe not, and he still needed to pay part of the price. Who knows? In either case, Jesus' promise to the man is fulfilled.


I would love to believe that everyone is saved, and that hell is left for Satan and his demons. That's the way I prefer it. Unfortunately, Jesus has not left that open to us. In the same way, you may prefer to believe what you like about sin, etc., but if you believe Jesus is God, then we have to look at the data he gave us.


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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 1:17 am 
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I am not going to speculate about the data Tom, to repeat, i am only after the fundamental basis of this precept. Of course you have to believe that Jesus brought along the robber to paradise because that was what he promised when the offender asked for his forgiveness. As a young theologian, I don't think you can opt to speculate now than believe on what Jesus uttered , because that would make you a selective skeptic like me.

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 7:06 pm 
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Ahh, I see!

Then, I must believe that the robber went STRAIGHT to heaven.

Your question, then, was: where does purgatory now come in?

The answer is: it doesn't. For the robber.


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