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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:14 am 
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This crazy society did not anticipate "Financial Collapse" until it actually happened.

This crazy society is not going to anticipate "Ecosystem Collapse" until it actually happens.


The way this insane, abnormal and criminal society is running is like :

A car running in a closed garage.

Adding extra floors to a building by removing bricks from the lower floors.



The crash - the collapse - the end is coming.

It is a matter of one or two decades at the most.


sushil_yadav
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:13 am 
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Industrial Society is insane. It believes ecosystems can be saved while it continues to increase "growth rate", "economy rate" and GDP.

City people are the problem - city people are the parasites eating away the ecosystems.

Today 50% of world population - 3 billion people are living in cities. Most of the people living in cities are engaged in unnecessary work, overwork, destructive work - making things, buying things and selling things.

We can still make our remaining ecosystems last longer if we limit our production to food, clothing and shelter [ and health care]. We can still make our remaining ecosystems last longer if we stop production of consumer goods or reduce it to the minimum level.

But the problem here is - what are we going to do with the 3 billion people living in cities most of whom are engaged in making things, buying things and selling things. There is no surplus farm land on earth where these people can be relocated.

All of these people cannot stop activity to do meditation - this requires ability and years of effort. So what do we do with the 3 billion people living in cities - how do we keep them occupied without destroying the ecosystems?


Believing that we can save ecosystems while we continue making consumer goods is like believing we can cure cancer while we continue flooding the environment with thousands of carcinogens.
It is like believing we can have peace in this world while the "Military Industrial Complex" continues to produce and sell billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world.

Humans are the destroyers of ecosystems - they are not going to become the saviours of ecosystems.

Asking humans to save environment is like asking petrol to extinguish a fire.


Weather is becoming hotter, irregular and unpredictable across the globe. We have lost most of the forests and a large percentage of ice in Arctic region and glaciers elsewhere. Forests and ice have played a major role in regulating wind speed and direction of wind and monsoon/ rain clouds. Weather patterns were fairly constant for thousands of years. All that is changing now. In India the summer season is no longer the same as before - winters are not the same and monsoon rains are also no longer the same as before.

In the coming years agriculture is going to collapse worldwide due to change and irregularity of weather. Man has already decimated fish in the oceans. There will be nothing left for man to eat. The human species is going to starve to death. Just wait and see what happens in the next two decades.

sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:18 am 
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Show some leadership you clown, stop using consumer electronics and electricity. Or is your contribution to the downfall excusable because you're whinging about it? Petrol to douse a fire, how apt for you!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:35 am 
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DSW wrote:
Show some leadership you clown, stop using consumer electronics and electricity. Or is your contribution to the downfall excusable because you're whinging about it? Petrol to douse a fire, how apt for you!


Genius,

Better stick to weightlifting - this is not your field.

You have shown who is the real clown. Did I ever claim I am not a part of society that is destroying the ecosystems? I have used the words "Industrial Society" in my article and posts - so I get included automatically. Secondly, do you think environment will be saved if I stop using my computer? There are 3 - 4 billion people in this world who are not using the computer - has that saved the environment?


You have asked me to show some leadership.

Don't you know? The leadership will come from the West - as always.

The West has taken the copyrights to making all solutions in this world.

Look at all the grand solutions being made in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"Coalition of the willing" has brought peace to Iraq.

"Coalition of the willing" is also going to save the environment.


The solution is quite easy:

bring this technology - bring that technology - bring this technology - bring that technology.

Replace one kind of light bulbs with another kind.

Replace one kind of fuel with another........and so on .... really simple....you should know.

sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:25 pm 
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Hi Sushil,

If you are still around, can you comment on "steady state economy". What are your thoughts? Here is a link:

steady state economy

Thanks,
Greta


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:29 pm 
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Greta wrote:
Hi Sushil,

If you are still around, can you comment on "steady state economy". What are your thoughts? Here is a link:

steady state economy

Thanks,
Greta



Greta,

Thanks for the link. Yes, "steady state economy" - not the insanity of infinite growth and development - "steady state living" is the right way to live - the sustainable way to live. This is how people lived for thousands of years in agrarian/ agricultural societies - fairly steady and constant lives. In such a society we have repetition, constancy, sameness. In the present "Industrial Society" we have change, transience, obsession with "new".

We have created a society where 50% of world population is growing food for 100% of world population. A further 5% - 10% is providing clothing and housing to 100% of world population. What is the remaining 40% of population doing? - they are all mostly engaged in overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work.

People living in cities create unnecessary work - unnecessary jobs to keep themselves occupied.

Billions of people living in cities are engaged in promoting consumerism - making things, buying things and selling things.

Millions of others are working in arms/ weapons industry - millions are working in tourism industry - millions are working in entertainment industry - millions are working in sports industry.

This kind of system can work on a planet of infinite size and resources - it cannot work on earth which is just 40,000 km in circumference.

"Growth Rate" - "Economy Rate" - "GDP" - These are figures of "Ecocide". These are figures of "crimes against Nature". These are figures of "destruction of Ecosystems". These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".

We can still make our remaining ecosystems last longer if we limit our production to food, clothing and shelter [and health care]. We can still make our remaining ecosystems last longer if we stop production of consumer goods or reduce it to the minimum level.

The fewer things we make the more sustainable we are.


In the case of cancer it is said there is hardly any hope when you reach the 4th stage.

In the case of "environmental destruction" we have crossed not the 4th - not the 40th - not the 400th - but probably the 4 millionth stage.

Humans have destroyed what was created by nature over a period of millions of years.


sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


Last edited by sushil_yadav on Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:43 am 
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Entertaining statistics, the whole world tied up in only three endeavours.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:58 pm 
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With the world's economies in the state they are sushil_yadav looks more right then before but:

If technology continues to develop then we are likely to see an increase in sustainable living. Such as the development of power from nuclear Fusion. I think we have to make a decision either to push ahead and reach the safe technology that will return us to sustainable living or eventually fall back to pre industrial revolution conditions. I really don't see the later as a viable option.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:28 pm 
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Thanks for the response Sushil. I have been reading a little about a steady state economy. In fact, a steady economy is about the "only" thing that makes any logical sense to me right now. I am no economist, but this notion of constant economic growth appears to be only causing more harm than good. Two-thirds of the US economy is based on consumerism. In an economic down-turn like we are experiencing in America, the economy really suffers. People are not spending any money, and many people are out of work and broke. Therefore, the government has to spend to make up for the difference. The problem is: in America, the government is also broke so they borrow from other countries (and run up their national debt), or they have nifty schemes to increase the money supply. I believe the system will eventually fail, and we will have no other choice but to resort to a more sustainable economy.

An Economy Based on Consumerism is Not Sustainable


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:45 pm 
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I am not sure zero growth could work. No progress, no need to buy goods other than essentials. I think in the long run it would cause problems and eventually a collapse.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:46 pm 
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In order to have a steady state economy, population has to be controlled. I am not sure if it would work or not, but an economy based on indefinite growth does not make any logical sense. In fact, what we are seeing right now is the failure of an economy based on this type of economic theory.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:34 pm 
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I think we have to accept dips, but lets be honest the general trend is always positive.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:49 pm 
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Greta wrote:
In order to have a steady state economy, population has to be controlled. I am not sure if it would work or not, but an economy based on indefinite growth does not make any logical sense. In fact, what we are seeing right now is the failure of an economy based on this type of economic theory.


"O brave new world,
That hath such people in't!"

William Shakespeare The Tempest
Act 5 Sc1

and respectful acknowledgment of Mr Huxley

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:37 pm 
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sigsfried wrote:
I think we have to accept dips, but lets be honest the general trend is always positive.
Financially, I am not sure how many more "dips" America will be able to withstand. As I mentioned, the US is broke; they are borrowing money from China and other nations just to keep their economy on life support because many of the businesses and private citizens have gotten smart and started actually saving money again, instead of spending. In addition, I believe many people have been psychologically affected by this economic downturn and are not going to immediately change their spending habits anytime in the near future. The national debt is over 11 trillion dollars, and that number is expected to increase significantly because the US government will be running huge budget deficits for quite some time in the future. Basically, the government is not taking in enough taxes, and they are not willing to make hard choices to cut government spending; neither one is politically popular for lawmakers. Also, many of the problems that caused the financial crisis to begin with have not been fixed. It will be interesting to see what happens when the US finally decides to take the American economy off "government" life support. :?:


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:39 pm 
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gumtree wrote:
Greta wrote:
In order to have a steady state economy, population has to be controlled. I am not sure if it would work or not, but an economy based on indefinite growth does not make any logical sense. In fact, what we are seeing right now is the failure of an economy based on this type of economic theory.


"O brave new world,
That hath such people in't!"

William Shakespeare The Tempest
Act 5 Sc1

and respectful acknowledgment of Mr Huxley
About my "population has to be controlled" comment, I was thinking along the lines of birth control. :idea:


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