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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:06 am 
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Dear Lunatic,

Why must you randomly use bold, it is not any more poignant.

I've already typed and lost a reply to you, and as you generally ignore anything I have written and post more hyperbolic pseudo-science I'm not going to make this very long.

I think it's curious that you never propose any real objectives to meet the ends of your neolithic fancies. Would you destroy all the factories? Would you sterilise all the children? Would you outlaw consumerables and hang anyone who is secretly hiding a box of matches? Your society would require nothing less than a nuclear holocaust to exist, and yet even those survivors who crawl out of the rubble will not be thinking of hunting animals with sticks and stones forever when they know they can achieve so much more.

Rainingtwain,

Your last paragraph is ridiculous. That is all.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:49 am 
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Welcome back, with thanks.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:35 am 
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Greta wrote:
I am starting to believe that our current industrial society is causing serious social, political, and environmental problems. Years ago people called it "progress", but there is a large price to pay for moving forward. I am beginning to wonder if it was ever progress at all or just an illusion.

www.simpleliving.net

thesaint wrote:
why don't we rearrange overactivity to finding ways of non-destructive progress and leaving the earth alone for a few hundred years.
Finally, if we destroy current life on the planet, earth will probably be able fix itself. If not maybe life itself was a dead end and the earth is better left to geological features.

cheGuevara wrote:
*thunderous applause* Bravo, bravo!
Seriously, interesting thoughts and I agree on the main point- Consumerism must go, if we are to retain our humanity.
che



Industrial Society has destroyed necessary things for making unnecessary things.

Industrial society has destroyed animals, trees, air, water and land for making consumer goods.


In the context of modern society/ civilization someone has said :

"It is like adding extra floors to your building by removing bricks from the lower floor/ foundation."



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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


Last edited by sushil_yadav on Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:52 am 
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Sushil, perhaps you missed my question, so here it is again.

cdsg23 wrote:
If we primitivise ourselves, how will we clean up the mess we have created of the Earth?


I appreciate that you want the world to be better, and that you want to destroy much of what is creating this disaster, but some things cannot be cleaned up without the aid of technology. So what would you propose we do about those things, leave them and allow them to continue to polluting and rotting our world away?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:25 am 
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cdsg23 wrote:
Sushil, perhaps you missed my question, so here it is again.

cdsg23 wrote:
If we primitivise ourselves, how will we clean up the mess we have created of the Earth?


I appreciate that you want the world to be better, and that you want to destroy much of what is creating this disaster, but some things cannot be cleaned up without the aid of technology. So what would you propose we do about those things, leave them and allow them to continue to polluting and rotting our world away?



cdsg23,

Technology is not cleaning the mess - it is creating a bigger mess.
All solutions of Man have actually been problems in disguise - they have led to bigger and greater problems.


People were not living a primitive life before industrialization.

Humans have spent more than 99% of their time on earth in non-industrial societies.

It is the present lifestyle which is an anomaly.

Modern consumerist lifestyle is an exception rather than the rule.


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Last edited by sushil_yadav on Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:37 am 
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Work has destroyed ecosystems.

Work has become a source of destruction in Industrial Society.

On a small planet whose circumference is just 40,000 km work has turned into overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work.

Most of the 3 billion people living in cities - 50% of world population - are engaged in overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work.

It is very important to understand the reasons for doing work.

Why do we work?

It is generally thought that people work because - they are smart, intelligent and hardworking. People work in order to feed themselves and their families.

Above reasons are totally wrong.

In the East sages had discovered thousands of years ago that people cannot stop working. People work because they cannot stop working.

Anyone who wants proof of this can try the following. Take leave from work for 10 days. Try to sleep continuously. Try to indulge in pleasure/ entertainment continuously. Try to relax continuously.

The energy generated by the food we eat forces us to work ceaselessly.

Energy = Energy[Physical Work] + Energy[Mental Work] + Energy[Suffering/ Subjective Experience]

All three energies on the right side are inversely proportional to one another.

When we do hard physical work or hard mental work or a combination of physical work and mental work almost all energy is used up in doing work.

When we stop physical work and mental work, the unused energy is experienced as suffering/ anxiety/ restlessness/ discomfort. This suffering is so intense - so unbearable - that most people cannot stop physical activity and mental activity simultaneously for even 2 minutes - they can stop work/activity only under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

There is no higher purpose behind work.

People do not work because they want to work.
People do not work for their family.
People do not work for their nation.
People do not work for any reason.

People work because they cannot stop working.

It does not matter what kind of work we do - whether it is physical work or any kind of mental work. As soon as we stop working we suffer from restlessness, anxiety, uneasiness and discomfort.

In Yoga and Meditation the goal is to stop Physical Activity and Mental Activity simultaneously - and then transform the subjective-experience of restlessness/ anxiety/ suffering into peace. This requires ability and years of effort. A large number of people in the east have tried to do this but very few have succeeded - maybe a few hundred or a few thousand in the entire history. Stopping work is not an option for most people living in this world.

Today 50% of world population - 3 billion people are living in cities. These people cannot do farming in cities. Most of the people living in cities are engaged in unnecessary work - making things, buying things and selling things - leading to an endless cycle of unnecessary and destructive work.

Our small planet which is only 40,000 km in circumference cannot sustain a city-based industrial society.

A city-based industrial society destroys necessary things for making unnecessary things.

A city-based industrial society destroys animals, trees, air, water and land for making consumer goods.

In a city-based industrial society work turns into overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work.

Such a society ends up destroying the ecosystems - the very things that have created and sustained life on earth.



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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


Last edited by sushil_yadav on Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:18 am 
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Lunatic,

I can stop working whenever I want. This will probably mean that I will become destitute if my parents are unwilling or unable to support me. But this is still a choice I have.

You continuously confuse the earning element of work with the biological system of work. Of course my heart has to work, it has to pump blood around my body, or I will cease to exist.

I do not understand your conception of 'suffering' which is not recognised biologically or entreprenurially in your equation.

Quote:
This suffering is so intense - so unbearable - that most people cannot stop physical activity and mental activity simultaneously for even 2 minutes - they can stop work/activity only under the influence of drugs and alcohol.


In this case, go and get yourself some horse tranquilisers.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:19 am 
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Hello, long time reader, first time submitter...

Humankind and its "easy button"... Humans can be soooo lazy sometimes.
I admit, that I use todays useful electronics. Some things deffinately make
things easier. But how far is the human species willing to go to make
something easier? At what point does everything become easy? If it's not
easy, a lot of people won't do it. If there is gas in the push-mower, and
none in the riding-mower, a lot of people will either go get more gas for
the riding-mower, or wait for someone else to mow the lawn. People will
wait 5 hours to get an air-hammer in hopes that their job will be done in
20 minutes, when there's a perfectly good regular-hammer, but they'll be
stuck with 2 hours of work. It's like people who say they're going camping
in an RV. They get to the campground, plug in all their appliances, and
stay inside with the AC and TV.
People want Nuclear Power, but they don't want the hassle of Nuclear
Waste. So what do they do? They take their nuclear waste and put it
in Native American Lands.
It's like people are reaching for hedonism.
Even my own people are being corrupted. Nobody wants to go hunting
anymore, they just want to go to McDonalds. Good 'ol instant gratification.
People want to be thin and glamorous, but they don't want to cut down
on their calorie intake. So what do they do? They take a drug that does
it for them. People want to be fit and muscular, but they don't want all
the hassle of working out. So what do they do? They hook themselves
up to a machine that has electrodes that shocks and stimulates their
muscles.
A thousand years from now, humans (if they're still around) will be getting
closer and closer to being cyborgs. Until one day, there will be no real
humanity left. All because people want things to be easier.

From my observations, I've noticed that peoples' fantasies include
indulgence, sloth, and irresponsibility. So many want to win the lotto
so they don't have to WORK anymore! Maybe our "working" gene is being
bred out of society.

I cannot tell if what the world considers 'happiness' is happiness or not. All I know is that when I consider the way they go about attaining it, I see them carried away headlong, grim and obsessed, in the general onrush of the human herd, unable to stop themselves or to change their direction. All the while they claim to be just on the point of attaining happiness....
~Chuang-tzu.~


Quote:
This suffering is so intense - so unbearable - that most people cannot stop physical activity and mental activity simultaneously for even 2 minutes - they can stop work/activity only under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

That's what meditation is for. But it's usually too much work for some.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:00 pm 
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Tushkahill,

Thanks for your post.

You have given some nice examples of a society which has become overdependent on gadgets and appliances. Such a society cannot be healthy in mind and body. This lifestyle has barely existed for 50 - 100 years and is an anomaly.

This lifestyle leads to creation of the Prozac Nation.

This lifestyle leads to a society where half to two-thirds of population has become fat like elephants.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:09 pm 
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Lunatic,

Wrong again:

Quote:
This lifestyle leads to a society where half to two-thirds of population has become fat like elephants.


The World Health Organization formally recognized the global nature of the obesity epidemic in 1997.[49] As of 2005 the WHO estimates that at least 400 million adults (9.8%) are obese, with higher rates among women than men.[1]

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:39 am 
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Greta wrote:
Sushil_yadav,

This statement that you made in your article reaffirms my feelings about consumerism: "Consumerist-Lifestyle is just not sustainable. If we do not immediately return to living a very simple and frugal life then very soon there will be no human life on earth." I agree, we (industrial societies) are headed down a path of irreversible destruction. Unfortunately, I see no real solution in the future for this complex problem that we face. This would involve changing the minds of millions of people all over the world, and I find it extremely difficult to convince one individual of our need for drastic change.


Greta,

You are right when you point out how difficult it is to change the minds of people in this consumerist society where the moto is :

consume, consume, consume ..... and destroy the ecosystems.

Continue with the Great American Dream .....which has turned into a Nightmare for the planet - 5% of world population consuming 40% of resources.


The president of America was recently asked to reduce consumption to save ecosystems and he replied :

"Our way of living cannot be compromised".


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 5:08 am 
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For several decades environmentalists have been warning modern society that ecosystems are getting destroyed - that consumerist life is not sustainable.

But modern society which was busy chasing progress, growth and development did not listen. It refused to believe there was any environmental crisis or problem. It said science and technology will always find a solution - if earth gets destroyed we will move on to another planet.

Impossible dreams were sold to people in the name of science and technology.

Moving to another planet would probably rank as the most impossible of all impossible things.

One space shuttle exploded during take off - another exploded on the return journey.

So far man has not been able to go beyond the moon. There is no other life sustaining ecosystem/ planet within our solar system. Outside the solar system planets and galaxies are millions of light years away - billions of light years away.

So when are we moving to a new home ?

Next year - or 5 years later ?



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Last edited by sushil_yadav on Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:07 am 
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Twat.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:51 pm 
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Haha.

Quote:
It said science and technology will always find a solution - if earth gets destroyed we will move on to another planet.


O rly? (*insert owl face*) gotta quote from a real person, have you?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:50 am 
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cheGuevara wrote:
Consumerism must go, if we are to retain our humanity.

Greta wrote:
The statement you made in your article reaffirms my feelings about consumerism. I agree, we (industrial societies) are headed down a path of irreversible destruction.


The collapse has already happened for millions of other species. Most of them have been decimated.

Very soon it will be the turn of man to go.

We are alive because of ecosystems - we owe our very existence to ecosystems.

Industrial Society has destroyed most ecosystems within a span of 250 years after Industrial Revolution.

Ecosystems are not consumer goods that can be manufactured, repaired or restored by MultiNational Companies in industries and factories.

Collapse of human society will happen much before peak oil/ fuel crisis. It is a matter of one or two decades at the most.

Humans will either be totally wiped out or reduced to a very tiny fraction of today's population.


Industrial Society has been spreading blatant lies over the years.

"Green Industry", "Green Technology", "Ethical Consumerism", "Sustainable Development".

These are contradictory terms – these are oxymorons.
Industrialization can never be green – it is impossible.

You cannot save a person after you have killed him.
You cannot save ecosystems after you have killed them for making consumer goods.



When we make consumer goods we kill Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land - directly or indirectly.

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems - all Industrial Societies destroy ecosystems.

It hardly matters whether it is "Capitalist Industrial Society" - "Communist Industrial Society" - or "Socialist Industrial Society".

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems at every stage of its functioning - when consumer goods are produced - when consumer goods are used - when consumer goods are discarded/ recycled.

Raw material for industry is obtained by cutting up Forests. It is extracted by mining/ digging up the earth. It comes by destroying/ killing Trees, Animals and Land.

Industries/ Factories use Water. The water that comes out of Factories is contaminated with hundreds of toxic chemicals. What to speak of Rivers - entire Oceans have been polluted. Industry kills Water.

Industries/ Factories burn millions of tonnes of fuel - and when raw material is melted/ heated up, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into the atmosphere. Industry kills Air.

Industrial Society has covered millions of square miles of land with cement and concrete. Industry kills Land.

When consumer goods are discarded/ thrown away in landfills it again leads to destruction of ecosystems.

When consumer goods are recycled, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into air, water and land.

Consumer goods are sold/ marketed through a network of millions of kilometers of rail / road network and shipping routes which causes destruction of all ecosystems that come in the way.



We have limited resources/ ecosystems on earth which is just 40,000 km in circumference.

If we destroy ecosystems for fewer things [food, clothing, shelter] the ecosystems will last longer.

If we destroy ecosystems for more things [consumer goods] the ecosystems will finish much sooner.

The fewer things we make the more sustainable we are.

This is common sense - plain common sense - which the so called smart, intelligent, advanced, civilized and developed Industrial Society does not possess.




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Last edited by sushil_yadav on Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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