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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:48 am 
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Sorry, couldn't wait a day, far too eager to see what you're warped mind has come up with now.

Have the decency to address criticisms of your work when I have taken the time to point them out, just because I think you're a loony, doesn't mean I ask you to act like one.

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EcoMurderer,
Are you aware of all the nonsense that you are writing?
Did you consume drugs before posting?


:Yawn: cut the rhetoric crap, I'm just not buying it. I'm allowed to ponder if you're on drugs and call your writing nonsense, because I've read it, thought about it and then challenged every single point you've made. In turn, you've dismissed almost every counter argument I've made and called me an ecomurderer, you're awfully good at this debating malarkey aren't you?

Quote:
Yes, I am using the computer - but I am using very few other consumer goods.

How many consumer goods and services are you using?

Would you like to compare your ecological footprint with mine?

Let us find out who is a bigger burden on earth.


I bet you're a nice little middle-class child aren't you? You failed to address the three other examples I gave. I use a fairly large amount of consumer goods and services because they enhance my life, I like to shower every morning, it makes me smell nice, I like to lounge on my sofa and relax because it rejuvenates me, I like to wear trainers because then I don't rip my feet to shreds, I like to own a mobile phone so I can contact people I'm not with, I like to own a wetsuit so I can swim in the sea when it's cold, I like to have a clock in my room so I know what time it is- anyone get my point here and want me to continue?

I'm proud that I have a large ecological footprint, it reminds me of all the most amazing advances in human history such as the aeroplane that I may take on holiday, or the automobile to get me from one place to another, or the oven so I can cook exceedingly good meals, etc. etc.

I freely admit I'm a 'burden' on the earth- but you'd still prefer if I lived in a cave, right?

Quote:
I find it ironic that you have no concern/ compassion for Environment despite the fact that you owe your very existence to nature/ environment.


I don't owe my existence to nature or the environment. From short-term perspective I owe that to the choice that my parents made. From an anthropological perspective I owe my existence to men who conquered the environment. Men who fashioned crude tools and weapons to hunt so that they would not go hungry. Men who learnt that drinking from stagnant water could cause illness, etc. etc. Nature is to be tamed.

Quote:
Why do you breathe the Air?
Why do you drink the Water?
Why do you eat the Food that comes from Soil? - Why don't you have Computers for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Take all your technology to the Moon - and try producing a single grain of Food without using any natural ingredient from Earth.


In the absence of Nature your grandfather would'nt have lived.
In the absence of Nature your father would'nt have lived.
In the absence of Nature you would'nt have lived.

Show some respect to Nature.


I eat, drink and breathe to survive, as is my choice (compare asphyxiation, starvation, dehydration). Followed by another non sequitur- you really don't understand what I'm arguing do you? If I have the technology to get to the moon, I'd have to have the means to eat, again, another nonsensical argument. I've addressed the next part about descendants above. In conclusion I might add that I respect the might of nature (I've been in some wicked surf ;)) but I have more respect for inventor(s) who represent the pinnacle of human achievement, e.g. the seismograph, weather forecasting, tidal power, etc.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:48 am 
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Greta wrote:
Sushil_yadav,

I finally got more time to read your article, and it was extremely fascinating. That was interesting the way you wrote the article in short sentences. It was much easier for me to process the information that way. You are definitely someone that thinks outside of the box; we need more people like you in this world.

This statement that you made in your article reaffirms my feelings about consumerism: "Consumerist-Lifestyle is just not sustainable. If we do not immediately return to living a very simple and frugal life then very soon there will be no human life on earth." I agree, we (industrial societies) are headed down a path of irreversible destruction. Unfortunately, I see no real solution in the future for this complex problem that we face. This would involve changing the minds of millions of people all over the world, and I find it extremely difficult to convince one individual of our need for drastic change.


Greta,

Industrial Society is destroying necessary things [Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land] for making unnecessary things [Consumer Goods].

When we make consumer goods we kill Animals/ Trees, Air/ Water and Land - directly or indirectly.

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems - all Industrial Societies destroy ecosystems.

It hardly matters whether it is "Capitalist Industrial Society" - "Communist Industrial Society" - or "Socialist Industrial Society".

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems at every stage of its functioning - when consumer goods are produced - when consumer goods are used - when consumer goods are discarded/ recycled.

Raw material for industry is obtained by cutting up Forests. It is extracted by mining/ digging up the earth. It comes by destroying/ killing Trees, Animals and Land.

Industries/ Factories use Water. The water that comes out of Factories is contaminated with hundreds of toxic chemicals. Industry kills Water. What to speak of Rivers - entire Oceans have been polluted.

Industry/ Factories burn millions of tonnes of fuel and when raw material is melted/ heated up, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into the atmosphere. Industry kills Air.

Industrial Society has covered millions of square miles of land with cement and concrete. Industry kills Land.

When consumer goods are discarded/ thrown away in landfills it again leads to destruction of ecosystems.

When consumer goods are recycled, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into air, water and land.

Consumer goods are sold/ marketed through a network of millions of kilometers of rail / road network and shipping routes which causes destruction of all ecosystems that come in the way.


Growth Rate - Economy Rate - GDP.

These are figures of "crimes against Nature".
These are figures of "destruction of Ecosystems".
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".



sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:23 am 
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Fish Are Quick wrote:
I use a fairly large amount of consumer goods and services because they enhance my life, I like to shower every morning, it makes me smell nice, I like to lounge on my sofa and relax because it rejuvenates me, I like to wear trainers because then I don't rip my feet to shreds, I like to own a mobile phone so I can contact people I'm not with, I like to own a wetsuit so I can swim in the sea when it's cold, I like to have a clock in my room so I know what time it is- anyone get my point here and want me to continue?

I'm proud that I have a large ecological footprint, it reminds me of all the most amazing advances in human history such as the aeroplane that I may take on holiday, or the automobile to get me from one place to another, or the oven so I can cook exceedingly good meals, etc. etc.

I freely admit I'm a 'burden' on the earth- but you'd still prefer if I lived in a cave, right?


Fish, I freely admit that I own many of the same things, and probably for similar reasons, so I ask you this:

Do you try to recycle? Do you bike or walk when only traveling ten feet down the road. Do you own a second (or third) computer that you do not use. Do you replace your mobil phone two days after a newer one comes out or do you use it until it breaks beyond repair? Do you plant trees? Do you support alternative energy sources?

In today's society it is nearly impossible to function without computers, cell phones, cars, electricity. The important point is not whether or not we are a burden on the earth, the more important factor is what we do to mitigate that burden. When you calculate your ecological footprint, you do not take into account how much you re-use, where your energy comes from, how many trees you plant, whether you use organic fertilizers, or how long you use something before it dies entirely beyond salvation.

Please do not focus on what you do to burden the earth, but focus instead on what you do to balance out what you use.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:07 pm 
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Well said.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:55 pm 
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cdsg23

You may be entirely missing the point, but perhaps I'll oblige you with some answers. You see, our resident lunatic here isn't talking about carbon footprints and global warming, I think he only mentioned that as some kind of reputable face on his gibberish. His equations do not make any sense. His insistent urging that we primitivise ourselves is not warranted. To this end, I feel you've missed the point, but as I said I will answer.

Quote:
Do you try to recycle? Do you bike or walk when only traveling ten feet down the road. Do you own a second (or third) computer that you do not use. Do you replace your mobil phone two days after a newer one comes out or do you use it until it breaks beyond repair? Do you plant trees? Do you support alternative energy sources?


Yes, I'm kinda forced to put things in the right bins.
I can't drive, so I usually walk.
I own one laptop personally.
I replace my phone when contracts expire.
No I don't plant trees.
I support some alternative energy sources, such as nuclear power.

This isn't a global warming thread per se, so I'll leave my criticisms of carbon reduction processes.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:54 pm 
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Hi Sushil,

I just sent you a private message.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:55 pm 
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Greta. Holy Moses. Old faces. Everywhere.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:06 pm 
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Hello Tommy
:D


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:52 pm 
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Greta,

Thanks for the PM.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:54 am 
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Fish Are Quick wrote:
You may be entirely missing the point, but perhaps I'll oblige you with some answers. You see, our resident lunatic here isn't talking about carbon footprints and global warming, I think he only mentioned that as some kind of reputable face on his gibberish. His equations do not make any sense. His insistent urging that we primitivise ourselves is not warranted. To this end, I feel you've missed the point, but as I said I will answer.


It's not that i was missing the point, i was mearly addressing one particular argument that had been brought up.

And on another note,

If we primitivise ourselves, how will we clean up the mess we have created of the Earth?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:47 pm 
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Humans have spent more than 99% of their time on earth in non-industrial societies.

Non-industrial society destroys ecosystems for food, clothing and shelter.
Industrial society destroys ecosystems for food, clothing and shelter plus thousands of unnecessary consumer goods.

Industrial society destroys necessary things - animals, trees, air, water and land for making unnecessary things - consumer goods.

Non-industrial societies have sustained on earth for thousands of years.
Industrial society has destroyed all ecosystems within 200 - 250 years.



"Growth Rate" - "Economy Rate" - "GDP"

These are figures of "Ecocide".
These are figures of "crimes against Nature".
These are figures of "destruction of Ecosystems".
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".




Destroy consumerism.....before it is too late.

Destroy Industrial Society.



sushil_yadav
PowerSwitch
EnviroLink
ePhilosopher
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


Last edited by sushil_yadav on Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:25 am 
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Yeah, it seems like so far industrial society is an experiment. And now we have planned obsolescence.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:37 am 
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thesaint wrote:
If things should get so bad as to force the masses to realize what is happening we might simply walk into what is left of the woods and try to survive. If we die, we deserve it, if we don't perhaps we'll do better.
In the meantime why don't we rearrange overactivity to finding ways of non-destructive progress and leaving the earth alone for a few hundred years.
Finally, if we destroy current life on the planet earth will probably be able fix itself. If not maybe life itself was a dead end and the earth is better left to geological features.
(congratulations sushil, you've influenced almost 10,000 people.)


rainingtwain wrote:
Yeah, it seems like so far industrial society is an experiment. And now we have planned obsolescence.


thesaint/ rainingtwain,

Thanks for your comments explaining the hopelessness of the situation/ environmental crisis. In the context of "environmental crisis", "technology" and "consumerism" I would like to present an analogy.


A person is being stabbed repeatedly at regular intervals - every hour.

Some people are trying to save the victim.

The sane way to save is - you first stop the attack – you prevent the attack.

What these insane people do - they allow the attack to be continued. They don’t stop it -- they don’t prevent it.

Instead, what they do - They say we are going to save the victim by using technology - the best technology - the best medical care.
Bring this technology - Bring that technology.

Bring this technology - Bring that technology.


They give the victim the best technology - the best medical care.
In the meantime the stabbing continues – every hour – even while the best medical care is being given.

One can imagine the fate of the victim.



Ecosystems are getting destroyed due to production of consumer goods.

Every consumer good is made by killing animals, trees, air, water and land - directly or indirectly. [ more killing of nature takes place when consumer goods are used and discarded]

Industrial society is destroying necessary things - animals, trees, air, water and land for making unnecessary things - consumer goods.

The sane way of saving ecosystems is - you stop production of consumer goods - you reduce production of consumer goods to the minimum level.

But the insane Industrial Society continues producing consumer goods [ in fact production is being increased every day]

The insane response of Industrial Society is - We will save the environment with technology - the best technology.

Bring this technology - Bring that technology.

Bring this technology - Bring that technology.


In the meantime production of consumer goods continues - 3 billion people living in cities are continuously engaged in - making , buying and selling of consumer goods - killing the ecosystems moment by moment.

One can imagine the fate of environment.



Height of Insanity.......Height of Abnormality.

Destroy Industrial Society.....before it is too late.
Destroy consumerism..... before it is too late.



sushil_yadav

ePhilosopher
ForeignPolicy
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


Last edited by sushil_yadav on Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:38 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:18 am 
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First of all, I don't know what industrial society has to do with someone being stabbed to death. It seems that you see things through a microscope instead of a wide-angle lense. The only thing industry will leave behind is plastics and styrofoam. All buildings, bridges, film, and books have a shelf-life. In 10,000 years, the only trace we'll leave behind is trash and probably Mount Rushmore.

Thousands of years ago, technology found a way of preserving the history of civilizations. However, their instruments were stone tools. And these will outlive the printing press. But nevermind that. It's not technology that's the problem. There's probably other civilizations in the milky way that use their technology for the betterment of their kind, and they're probably watching us right now wondering why we are destroying ourselves with it. It just has to do with where the power lies. Those in power today have taken control of industry and they get a kick out of hiding its potential.

Maybe the problem is that people assume that mankind created technology. Well, suppose that technology created man. Life on this planet is so complicated, how do you know that it wasn't created by some genius geneticist from another world? There's evidence that civilizations on this planet have been destroyed, but then they magically reappear. Reappear from what ?

And lastly, I don't know what you mean from environmental crisis. To me, it seems like people in environmentalism feel that we're destroying the planet. If anything, I think we're destroying ourselves and the planet is just the background. What does the planet care if all the fish are gone and the rainforest is depleted? Even if a huge meteor hits us the planet will still be here for billions of years. Or as the late and great George Carlin once said: "The planet is fine, the people are fucked".


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