Quotations and Literature Forum

It strikes me as a bit odd that some nouns are plural and others are plural in a singular sense. Deer is both singular and plural but bucks are plural for more than one male. Duck is singluar for one and ducks is plural(drakes or hens). Geese is plural for more than one goose. GOOSES? Quail is both singular and plural.

There are many ways to form a plural in English and no reliable rules. A few odd examples: woman/women, child/children, mouse/mice, along with deer/deer, sheep/sheep, and head/head (of cattle). We inherited some of our grammar from German, where plurals also take many forms, as well as French, Latin, and other languages.

Note: in many languages, such as Chinese, there is no plural, and no one feels any need for it. One man, ten man, hundred man. It's all the same. And why not?

_________________
Mr. Fussbudget

True wit is nature to advantage dressed,
What oft was thought, but ne'er so well expressed.

I know this discussion really doesn't belong on this forum, but I must go on...

The heading "Where the deers and the antelopes play" is a reference to the line "where the deer and the antelope play"--which has nothing to do with the plural. It's an example of synecdoche, the rhetorical device of using a part to represent the whole.

A typical example:

The turtle lives twixt plated decks
That practically conceal its sex.
I think it clever of the turtle,
In such a fix to be so fertile.

--Ogden Nash

Nash uses "the turtle" to mean all turtles.

Another, very common, example of synecdoche is the expression "Get your ass out of here," where a part of the body is used to represent the whole thing.

_________________
Mr. Fussbudget

True wit is nature to advantage dressed,
What oft was thought, but ne'er so well expressed.

To say that synecdoche is an adjective that is not commonly used would be an understatement. I am 46 and I have never heard or seen the word used until yesterday (on this forum). I am at a loss of words to describe a word that has such limited exposure. Maybe Mr. Fussbudget can work some magic with his word power.

Synecdoche is what is known as a rhetorical device. Starting in ancient times and up to quite recently Rhetoric was an important educational subject. Rhetoricians examined and defined every possible device (i.e., strategy of expression and persuasion) only a small percentage of which are commonly mentioned today. For example, irony, hyperbole, simile, analogy, oxymoron...

If you'd like to learn more about this entertaining subject, go here:

http://www.uky.edu/AS/Classics/rhetoric.html

_________________
Mr. Fussbudget

True wit is nature to advantage dressed,
What oft was thought, but ne'er so well expressed.

Not only is synechdoche a rhetorical device and an interesting topic, it also not an adjective, but a noun. I would guess that synechdochal might be the adjective form, as anecdotal is the adjective form of anecdote. I'm merely guessing through my hat, so to speak, because like Phantom, I'd not heard the term until I saw it tonight in this forum. Which proves I'm still not too old to learn! Thanks all!

_________________
Let us then be up and doing, with a heart for any fate. (HW Longfellow)

It is interesting that Mr. Phantom_Delta believes anything he hasn't heard of has "limited exposure." The first time I heard the word "synecdoche" was in my high school senior English class, where I found it difficult to keep straight from "metonymy" ("substitution of one word for another which it suggests"). I have since learned to recognize and use synecdoche on a number of occasions, probably all in college English classes. As Mr. Fussbudget points out, synecdoche is a rhetorical device which you learn when you study rhetoric. I am completely unaquainted with some vocabulary of other fields: mechanics, for instance. That means I haven't studied mechanics, not that the words have limited exposure.

However, I do not see why "Where the deer and the antelope play" is an example of synecdoche. I think Mr. Phantom_Delta was correct in using it to introduce the haphazard rules of plurals. In the quoted line, both "deer" and "antelope" are in the plural form, which in their case is identical to the singular form. The song is referring to a bunch of deer and a bunch of antelope playing on the range. Where's the synecdoche?

If antelope is the plural of antelope, I apologize. Come to think of it, "Oh give me a home, where the buffalo roam" uses buffalo as a plural, too. Now I'm blushing.

And thinking a bit more (as I should have done in the first place) it seems there's something about herd animals that allows this sort of thing: a herd of buffalo, a herd of zebra, a herd of wildebeest, etc. However, you can't say a herd of cow or a herd of goat.

And furthermore, what the heck are we doing here on the Corrections forum? Isn't it for corrections of the quotations?

_________________
Mr. Fussbudget

True wit is nature to advantage dressed,
What oft was thought, but ne'er so well expressed.

If wishes were fishes ...

Is fish not plural for fish? Bass? Trout? Crappie? Catfish? Salmon?
(Crappie is pronounced as Croppy in the South.)


"Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea,
Joy to you and me!"

--Three Dog Night

Rare is a word that is commonly used to describe things that are uncommon.

Does this qualify for a paradox?

Phantom: I believe if you see two fish, the plural is 'fish.' But if you are talking about the different varieties of fish, then 'fishes' is the correct plural. I don't know why I believe this. In fact, now I believe I'll research it and return to edit if I'm wrong!

Well, it seems I am somewhat wrong. The Am. Heritage Dictionary lists plural inflections of 'fish' as 'fish or fishes.' I wonder if this is a case of the language accommodating our improper usage.

_________________
Let us then be up and doing, with a heart for any fate. (HW Longfellow)

Well, shucks. Let's confuse it more. Then there are "schools" of art such as The Hudson River School.

The school in Hudson River School is the same as the school in nursery school, and derives from the Latin word schola, which means the same thing.

The school in "school of fish" is related to the word shoal, and has nothing to do with teaching little fishies how to swim. It's of somewhat uncertain Anglo-Saxon origin.

_________________
Mr. Fussbudget

True wit is nature to advantage dressed,
What oft was thought, but ne'er so well expressed.

What do you lingui-philes say about the 'school of thought'? For that matter, what do you say about 'lingui-philes'? Surely Mr. Fussbudget knows a more correct word!

_________________
Let us then be up and doing, with a heart for any fate. (HW Longfellow)