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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:13 am 
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Dear friends,

I want to thank everyone for reading the article.

I have made some additions to the article "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment". To read the modified article please follow any of these links :

PowerSwitch
EnviroLink
ePhilosopher


sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


Last edited by sushil_yadav on Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:13 am 
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Hi Sushil,

I am glad that you are back. This gives me a chance to review your article again, which I thought was very interesting. Thanks!


Last edited by Greta on Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:27 am 
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Greta,

Modern Industrial Society has existed for 100 years - 200 years - 300 years. When we compare this period with the total duration for which human society has existed on earth this period is so short - so small that it almost does'nt exist. It is almost zero.

Material things don't bring peace and happiness. Today billions of people have got things which even Kings did not have in the past. Car, computer, television, fridge, telephone - no King ever had these things. But people are still restless and unhappy.

Industrial Society is consuming psychiatric drugs/ sleeping pills by tonnes and tonnes. There are hundreds of lifestyle-related physical and mental diseases.

A very large percentage of the population is surviving on precription drugs, illegal drugs, alcohol and cigarettes.

One-third of the population has become fat like elephants.



Consumerist-Lifestyle is just not sustainable. If we do not immediately return to living a very simple and frugal life then very soon there will be no human life on earth.

The human race has been destroying/ killing animals, trees, air, water, land and people from the very beginning of civilization. Science and Technology has increased this destructive capacity millions of times.

The per-capita destruction of Environment - per-capita destruction of Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land is thousands of times greater than what it was 1000 years ago - 500 years ago - 200 years ago.

The Military-Industrial Complex is all set to destroy whatever life and environment that remains on earth.


There is a reason why the two World Wars happened in the recent past and not 1000 years ago?

It was not possible to have world wars 1000 years ago. World Wars became possible only when Science and Technology developed aeroplanes, ships and other carriers which could transport millions of troops and millions of tonnes of weapons[once again a creation of science and technology] from one corner of the globe to another.

And today one does'nt even need all these to fight a war. One just needs to move finger-tips to launch missiles that can destroy the planet several times over.

Right at this moment there are several countries fighting wars with one another. There is internal war going on in almost half of the the countries of the world. All these wars are being fuelled and sustained by billions of tonnes of weapons produced by the Military-Industrial Complex every year.

And it is going to get worse and worse every day.

sushil_yadav


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:15 pm 
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Quote:
Material things don't bring peace and happiness. Today billions of people have got things which even Kings did not have in the past. Car, computer, television, fridge, telephone - no King ever had these things. But people are still restless and unhappy.

Sushil,

I believe people are so unhappy because they have so much. If some of their "things" were taken away, maybe that would allow them to better appreciate life.

Quote:
The Military-Industrial Complex is all set to destroy whatever life and environment that remains on earth.

I am not against the military per se, and "sometimes" military force is needed; however, most of the time war is not necessary. Military presence (without war) can be destructive to the environment as well. Here is an example:
http://www.savebiogems.org/whales/

This is the US Navy's response to this:
http://www.whalesandsonar.navy.mil/index.htm


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:55 am 
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Dear friends,

I had earlier given links to my article "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment". Those links are not working due to some problem. I want to give new links. To read the modified article please follow any of these links :


PowerSwitch
EnviroLink
ePhilosopher


sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


Last edited by sushil_yadav on Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:19 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 8:54 am 
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You're still a raving lunatic.

Much love,

-fish are quick!

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Alexander Pope


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:38 pm 
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Man can repair and restore things that have been made by man himself. Car, Computer, Aeroplane, Rocket - if anything goes wrong with these things man can repair and restore.

Man cannot repair and restore Nature/ Environment - because man did not make Nature/ Environment. Once a Forest is destroyed - it is gone for millions of years. One cannot create a Forest in 5 or 50 years - it takes millions of years to make a forest - containing millions of species of animals, insects, birds, plants and trees. Man can create a plantation in 5 or 50 years - not a forest.

The only way to save Environment is by not destroying it - leave it alone - leave it undisturbed. If you destroy Environment you cannot repair and restore it.


sushil_yadav
PowerSwitch
EnviroLink
ePhilosopher
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


Last edited by sushil_yadav on Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:17 pm 
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It is an interesting conondrum. If things should get so bad as to force the masses to realize what is happening we might simply walk into what is left of the woods and try to survive. If we die, we deserve it, if we don't perhaps we'll do better.
In the meantime why don't we rearrange overactivity to finding ways of non-destructive progress and leaving the earth alone for a few hundred years.
Finally, if we destroy current life on the planet earth will probably be able fix itself. If not maybe life itself was a dead end and the earth is better left to geological features.
(congratulations sushil, you've influenced almost 10,000 people.)

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:06 am 
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thesaint wrote:
In the meantime why don't we rearrange overactivity to finding ways of non-destructive progress and leaving the earth alone for a few hundred years.


thesaint,

Thanks for your comment. You have mentioned overactivity in your post. It is important to understand how human activity turned into overactivity.

Today 50% of world population - 3 bilion people are living in cities. The necessary work of growing/producing Food is being done outside cities - in villages and countryside. Most of the people living in cities are engaged in unnecessary work - making things, buying things and selling things. The switch-over from Physical work to Mental work/ Desk job has led to an endless cycle of unnecessary and destructive work.


Life was never good in the past.

Life will never be good in future.

Life can never be good.


Suffering is a part of life - an inherent feature of life. Suffering can never be eliminated.

There is Physical suffering - There is Mental suffering.

In pre-industrial society there were physical diseases caused by virus and bacteria.
In modern society there are hundreds of lifestyle related physical diseases - Cancer, Stroke, Diabetes, Obesity, Multiple Organ Failures.

Mental suffering will always exist. It exists in agrarian society. It exists in industrial society. As soon as we stop working we experience mental suffering.

We avoid mental suffering by working ceaselessly.

There is no higher purpose behind work.

People do not work because they want to work.
People work because they cannot stop working.

The energy generated by the food we eat forces us to work ceaselessly.

Energy = Energy[Physical Work] + Energy[Mental Work] + Energy[Suffering/ Subjective Experience]

All three energies on the right side are inversely proportional to one another.

When we do hard physical work or hard mental work or a combination of physical work and mental work almost all energy is used up in doing work.

When we stop physical work and mental work the unused energy is experienced as suffering/ anxiety/ restlessness/ discomfort. This suffering is so intense - so unbearable - that most people cannot stop physical activity and mental activity simultaneously for even 2 minutes - they can stop work/activity only under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

People do not work because they want to work.
People do not work for their family.
People do not work for their nation.
People do not work for any reason.

People work because they cannot stop working.

It does not matter what kind of work we do - whether it is physical work or any kind of mental work. As soon as we stop working we suffer from restlessness, anxiety, uneasiness and discomfort.

[ In Yoga and Meditation the goal is to stop Physical Activity and Mental Activity simultaneously - and then transform the subjective-experience of restlessness/ anxiety/ suffering into peace. This requires ability and years of effort ]

For most people the choice is between physical and mental work.
The switch-over from physical work to mental work is disastrous for the planet.

Man can do the same physical work every day.
Man cannot do the same mental work every day.

When man used to do physical work ( farming and related activities ) he could do the same repetitive work day after day- generation after generation.

After the Industrial Revolution when man switched-over to mental work he began a never ending process of making new machines / things / products-- a process which can only end with the complete destruction of environment ( planet ).

When society switches over from physical work to mental work it starts making thousands of consumer goods. People start calling them necessities. They are not necessities at all - 90% of consumer goods that we see today did not exist 50 years ago.

Food, Water, Air, Little clothing, Little Shelter - these are necessities.

Close your nose and stop breathing for a few minutes - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop drinking water for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop eating food for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Today people are making thousands of consumer goods - not because they are necessities - but because they cannot stop making them. People cannot stop doing work - After switching over to mental work they will keep on making thousands of unnecessary consumer goods.

Industrial Society is destroying necessary things[Animals,Trees,Air,Water and Land] for makng unnecessary things[Consumer Goods].

sushil_yadav


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:36 am 
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Since I can't be bothered to reply to you at Q-land, I'll have a dig here.

More reasons why sushil is a raving lunatic 1.1 Edition.

Today 50% of world population - 3 bilion people are living in cities. The necessary work of growing/producing Food is being done outside cities - in villages and countryside. Most of the people living in cities are engaged in unnecessary work - making things, buying things and selling things. The switch-over from Physical work to Mental work/ Desk job has led to an endless cycle of unnecessary and destructive work.

You just have no idea of economics do you? The people who are doing the buying and selling as you so deftly put it in the city are exporting and importing food and other such sources, not everything is grown within the UK or produced within any one country. Your condemnation of the service industry as a whole demonstrates a severe misjudgement of the importance of 'mental work,' e.g. without a legal system to establish property rights, I can raid your happy farm, take your food and keep it for myself, therefore I have no need to perform the 'necessary work of growing/producing' myself.

Life was never good in the past.

Life will never be good in future.

Life can never be good.

Suffering is a part of life - an inherent feature of life. Suffering can never be eliminated.

There is Physical suffering - There is Mental suffering.


Has someone been reading a little too much Schopenhauer lately? This rhetoric has little meaning :yawn:

In pre-industrial society there were physical diseases caused by virus and bacteria.
In modern society there are hundreds of lifestyle related physical diseases - Cancer, Stroke, Diabetes, Obesity, Multiple Organ Failures.


Strokes aren't diseases. Obesity is not a disease. Multiple organ failures may be caused by diseases, but are not diseases in themselves. Don't you think there has been an improvement in the history of medicine???

Mental suffering will always exist. It exists in agrarian society. It exists in industrial society. As soon as we stop working we experience mental suffering.

Why is then that I've just come home from work and feel rather relaxed? Why is it then that when I retire and receive my pension I think I shall be rather happy?

We avoid mental suffering by working ceaselessly.

There is no higher purpose behind work.

People do not work because they want to work.
People work because they cannot stop working.


There is a 'higher purpose' behind my work, though it is not transcendental. My work and the monies I receive from it are testament to the life I have chosen to live and represent some of my greatest achievements. I want to work for a law firm, I'd give up my final year of uni if I could start now. Yes, we have to work in order to satisfy our basic needs and to pay for material items, but all success and achievement comes from the earned. If everybody decided not to work, we would eventually rebuild society more or less the same in order to have the things we want. People want to raise a family, people want to own their own home, people want to travel- that all costs money and no matter how much people hate their jobs, they will continue to work in order to have those things.

The energy generated by the food we eat forces us to work ceaselessly.

Your confusing basic human need with the choice to work. One need not work, one could if one chose to take benefits. Some disabled people are not able to work, yet they still eat, this does not therefore compel them to work.

Energy = Energy[Physical Work] + Energy[Mental Work] + Energy[Suffering/ Subjective Experience]

'Suffering' in this equation is a non sequitur.

All three energies on the right side are inversely proportional to one another.

When we do hard physical work or hard mental work or a combination of physical work and mental work almost all energy is used up in doing work.


On a weekend, I may choose to relax, stay at home and watch films, I am still hungry at dinner, and still need to replenish my carbohydrates and energy stores.

When we stop physical work and mental work the unused energy is experienced as suffering/ anxiety/ restlessness/ discomfort. This suffering is so intense - so unbearable - that most people cannot stop physical activity and mental activity simultaneously for even 2 minutes - they can stop work/activity only under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

Have you never sat infront of the tv for more than two minutes? I assure you it's brainless and involves no significant physical activity other than to keep your eyes open.

People do not work because they want to work.
People do not work for their family.
People do not work for their nation.
People do not work for any reason.

People work because they cannot stop working.


Again, people choose to work.

It does not matter what kind of work we do - whether it is physical work or any kind of mental work. As soon as we stop working we suffer from restlessness, anxiety, uneasiness and discomfort.

Anyone else suffer from restless anxiety? Or is it just this brainiac, who quite clearly does, since his thoughtless ideas are obviously all over the internet.

[ In Yoga and Meditation the goal is to stop Physical Activity and Mental Activity simultaneously - and then transform the subjective-experience of restlessness/ anxiety/ suffering into peace. This requires ability and years of effort ]

I don't believe meditation can bring me any closer to peace, aren't most people 'at peace' just before they go to sleep?

For most people the choice is between physical and mental work.
The switch-over from physical work to mental work is disastrous for the planet.

Man can do the same physical work every day.
Man cannot do the same mental work every day.

When man used to do physical work ( farming and related activities ) he could do the same repetitive work day after day- generation after generation.

After the Industrial Revolution when man switched-over to mental work he began a never ending process of making new machines / things / products-- a process which can only end with the complete destruction of environment ( planet ).


Another horrible non sequitur- your assumption that the world is going to end because of human invention is completely counter-intuitive, some advancements in medicine haved increased longevity, how can you account for this? Like Weber's theory you also fail to account for why or how society has moved from an agricultural society to an industrial society- have you not considered that human invention can also be applied to agriculture- such as the tractor, which still enables people to do the same activities but in a different capacity.

When society switches over from physical work to mental work it starts making thousands of consumer goods. People start calling them necessities. They are not necessities at all - 90% of consumer goods that we see today did not exist 50 years ago.

Food, Water, Air, Little clothing, Little Shelter - these are necessities.

Close your nose and stop breathing for a few minutes - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop drinking water for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop eating food for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.


You are right in drawing a line between true necessities and desires, but you don't seem to recognise that society is not going to revert to hunting wild animals and sleeping in caves.

Today people are making thousands of consumer goods - not because they are necessities - but because they cannot stop making them. People cannot stop doing work - After switching over to mental work they will keep on making thousands of unnecessary consumer goods.

I'm getting a little bored repeating myself now, but I thought I'd challenge you.
Do you have a computer/laptop or is that an unneccessary consumer good?
Do you have a television or is that an unnecessary consumer good?
Do you sleep in a bed, or is that an unnecessary consumer good?
Do you have lightbulbs in your place of shelter or is that an unnecessary consumer good?

You are not living what you are propagating.

Industrial Society is destroying necessary things[Animals,Trees,Air,Water and Land] for makng unnecessary things[Consumer Goods].

Man has every right to exert his influence over his environment, we are not savages, but an intelligent human race. We are not slaves to nature.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:00 am 
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Fish Are Quick wrote:
Do you have a computer/laptop or is that an unneccessary consumer good?
Do you have a television or is that an unnecessary consumer good?
Do you sleep in a bed, or is that an unnecessary consumer good?
Do you have lightbulbs in your place of shelter or is that an unnecessary consumer good?

You are not living what you are propagating.

Industrial Society is destroying necessary things[Animals,Trees,Air,Water and Land] for makng unnecessary things[Consumer Goods].

Man has every right to exert his influence over his environment, we are not savages, but an intelligent human race. We are not slaves to nature.


EcoMurderer,
Are you aware of all the nonsense that you are writing?
Did you consume drugs before posting?

Yes, I am using the computer - but I am using very few other consumer goods.

How many consumer goods and services are you using?

Would you like to compare your ecological footprint with mine?

Let us find out who is a bigger burden on earth.



You say you are from QuoteLand. I am repeating what I posted there.

I find it ironic that you have no concern/ compassion for Environment despite the fact that you owe your very existence to nature/ environment.

Why do you breathe the Air?
Why do you drink the Water?
Why do you eat the Food that comes from Soil? - Why don't you have Computers for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Take all your technology to the Moon - and try producing a single grain of Food without using any natural ingredient from Earth.


In the absence of Nature your grandfather would'nt have lived.
In the absence of Nature your father would'nt have lived.
In the absence of Nature you would'nt have lived.

Show some respect to Nature.

sushil_yadav


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:30 pm 
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sushil, Fish is partially right. You're going a bit off the extreme end, but if you mellowed down your ideas they'd be very good.

_________________
Time for the weather report. It's cold out folks. Bonecrushing cold. The kind of cold which will wrench the spirit out of a young man, or forge it into steel.
Diane Frolov and Andrew Schneider


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:44 pm 
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sushil,

Have the decency to directly address what I have written above. I'll give you a day then I'll rip into the lattest garbled nonsense you're asserting. Capiche?

faq

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:29 pm 
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Fish Are Quick wrote:
sushil,

Have the decency to directly address what I have written above. I'll give you a day then I'll rip into the lattest garbled nonsense you're asserting. Capiche?

faq


You need to rip apart yourself.

Fish Are Quick wrote:
I'll have a dig here.

More reasons why sushil is a raving lunatic 1.1 Edition.



This person writes the above language and then he says - "Have the decency to address what I have written."

sushil_yadav


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:25 pm 
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Well sushil, stop raving and folk will stop talking about your raving.
Fish.
You use a computer, electricity. generating etc. is it your argument that it's ok because it's only a small hipocrisy? Surely that which is harmful should not be used at all? No, I know, because it's you attacking the usage, then usage is justified.

Answer the following, for my curiosity, if you can.

Do you have a television or is that an unnecessary consumer good?
Do you sleep in a bed, or is that an unnecessary consumer good?
Do you have lightbulbs in your place of shelter or is that an unnecessary consumer good?

What do you cook with?
What mode of transport do you use?
How do you earn your living?

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