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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:38 am 
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On the contrary, freedom of speech means you can disrespect people, you just can't incite violence.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:50 pm 
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But what if your free speech incites violence unwittingly?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:53 pm 
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Yes and the thin line between freedom and disrespect is arogance and ignorance of what freedom really is...

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:16 am 
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But how free are we really, especially since it is now five years after the original attacks in 2001. How much freedom have we lost because of that?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:30 am 
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' Remember that what you believe will depend very much on what you are.'
Noah Porter (1811 - 1892)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:27 pm 
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thank you patsm


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:04 am 
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cdsg23,

Quote:
But what if your free speech incites violence unwittingly?


- I think you have to prove that you deliberately or recklessly meant to cause the act. If you acted under good conscience and did not believe that your actions would have incited violence then it is unlikely that you would be prosecuted.

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But how free are we really, especially since it is now five years after the original attacks in 2001. How much freedom have we lost because of that?


Good question. And I'd like to know what reforms have been brought in post 9-11 in terms of statutes that have limited your freedom.

Ish,

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Yes and the thin line between freedom and disrespect is arogance and ignorance of what freedom really is...


My reply was subtle and truthful. If you think me ignorant of freedom, perhaps you'd like to explain it yourself?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:37 am 
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Fish Are Quick,

"Reality isn't whatever you want it to be unless you're a solipsistic headcase."

You're right. I don't know why I put that. There is only one reality and several interpretations of it.

"That's just semantics. Freedom is definitive. Man's right to life is the ultimate freedom and all such legislated freedoms are corollaries.

You can say that freedom is difinitive, but people are always going to have different feelings about what it means to them. And according to you, when most people talk about freedom, they are talking about these legislative corollaries, not this ultimate freedom you speak of.

"Freedom depends more upon the state under which you live rather than the money you possess- look at the Russian billionaires who were imprisoned by their government. "

I don't know who these Russian Billioinaires are, but that's just one example. And it doesn't disprove that money can't buy you freedom.

"If you want to talk about anarchy I'm happy with that, but I'd suggest opening another thread."

Well, I don't really know much about anarchy, but if it means more freedom, I don't see why it shouldn't be discussed here.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:03 pm 
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"Freedom depends more upon the state under which you live rather than the money you possess- look at the Russian billionaires who were imprisoned by their government. "

I don't know who these Russian Billioinaires are, but that's just one example. And it doesn't disprove that money can't buy you freedom.


Mostly oil tycoons and men who made their fortunes in material industries after Gorbachev opened up Russian again to the world. My real point is, if you live under a government which advocates a form of socialism or communism, the money you earn is their possession, as is any product of your labour. Once you take away this property right, you cannot guarantee many other freedoms, because what you're effectively doing is removing man's means of survival. Sure, money can get you a lot of things, but in a meritocratic society like America, UK etc. anyone has the potential to earn that kind of money. But in corrupt regimes, that's simply not possible. I thought Russia was a good example because it shows that these men can have a fabulous amount of wealth and yet they can do nothing about it or with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Khodorkovsky

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:19 pm 
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[quote="Fish Are Quick"][quote]"Freedom depends more upon the state under which you live rather than the money you possess- look at the Russian billionaires who were imprisoned by their government. "

I don't know who these Russian Billioinaires are, but that's just one example. And it doesn't disprove that money can't buy you freedom.
[/quote]

[/quote]

but how good is that freedom when it comes at such high a cost?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:50 am 
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' To know what you prefer instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive. '
~~ Robert Louis Stevenson (1850 - 1894)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:15 am 
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"The greatest Glory of a free-born People, Is to transmit that Freedom to their Children."
--William Havard

Libra.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:39 am 
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People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.
-Søren Kierkegaard

"It is by the goodness of God that we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either of them."
-Mark Twain


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:46 am 
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"If you make a living, if you earn your own money, you're free -- however free one can be on this planet."
--Theodore White

See how freedom can be simple :)

Libra.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:12 am 
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Until someone decides to form a government...

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