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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:16 am 
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' Civilization begins with order, grows with liberty, and dies with chaos.
Will Durant (1885 - 1981) '
are these the ways 1) 'Civilization' is @ has been or 2) the utopian ways it should be according to Will Durant


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:37 am 
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Not being familler with Durant I cannot say what his meaning was, but from my view of it I think it speaks very well of what civilization is as well as has been in the past.

If you think of all the war going on now and the babrbarity it brings I would say that the last part of that quote

Quote:
and dies with chaos.


is holding true today, and I think you can see many other situations where that has also proven true.

I think the first part of the quote also holds true, to have civilization then there must be order to save from the chaos, but it can only be a limitied civilization untill liberty brings fairness and equlality to all.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:44 am 
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What is the definition of civilization? A totalitarian state can be a very civilized society by removing those elements of it that do not behave in a civilized manner, but that does not involve any real liberties.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:45 pm 
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I see civilization as a society any society in which people act in a genreally civil manner tword each other, that is there is some order and rules so it is not anarchy and mayhem and where indidividuals are not premittied to cause unjust injury against each other. Where there is an equality of rights among the people.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:27 pm 
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I always liked this quote:

Civilization is a stream with banks. The stream is sometimes filled with blood from people killing, stealing, shouting and doing the things historians usually record, while on the banks, unnoticed, people build homes, make love, raise children, sing songs, write poetry and even whittle statues. The story of civilization is the story of what happened on the banks. Historians are pessimists because they ignore the banks for the river.~Will and Ariel Durant


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:55 pm 
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I owned and read most of Will Durant's "The Story of Civilization" in ten volumes.

Throughout most of history, if a country developed something like democracy, it soon died because a crisis came alone and some strongman arose to meet the crisis. Greece and Rome are examples.

Until the Elizabethan Age, and William Shakespeare, ( see Julius Ceasar ) it was believed that democracy could not survive. Invariably the monarchy would take back control

In more modern times, democracy seems to be winning. America's democracy seems healthy after two centuriies. European democracy is doing well too. Since where there is democracy there is not chaos, it seems that Will Durant's quote, true for most of history, is going out of style.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:25 am 
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' In more modern times, democracy seems to be winning. America's democracy seems healthy after two centuriies. European democracy is doing well too. Since where there is democracy there is not chaos '

i wish those quotes were fully true but sadly there is still much reforming to be done - here are quotes from t 'subject index' here
Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the rulers. -- Aristotle

Democracy consists of choosing your dictators, after they've told you what you think it is you want to hear. -- Alan Corenk
God creates men, but they choose each other. --- Niccolo Machiavelli (1469 - 1527)
If liberty and equality, as is thought by some are chiefly to be found in democracy, they will be best attained when all persons alike share in the government to the utmost. -- Aristotle (384 BC - 322 BC)
The great thing about democracy is that it gives every voter a chance to do something stupid. -- Art Spander
Men willingly believe what they wish. -- Julius Caesar (100 BC - 44 BC)
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few. -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)
Sane and intelligent human beings are like all other human beings, and carefully and cautiously and diligently conceal their private real opinions from the world and give out fictitious ones in their stead for general consumption. - Mark Twain (1835 - 1910),
The truth is rarely pure and never simple. -- Oscar Wilde
The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments. - William H. Borah
Democracy means government by discussion, but it is only effective if you can stop people talking. -- Clement Atlee
Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)
The whole dream of democracy is to raise the proletarian to the level of stupidity attained by the bourgeois. -- Gustave Flaubert (1821 - 1880)
There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right with America. -- Bill Clinton (1946 - )
Americans are overreachers; overreaching is the most admirable of the many American excesses. -- George F. Will (1941 - )
Half of the American people have never read a newspaper. Half never voted for President. One hopes it is the same half. -- Gore Vidal
Ninety-eight percent of the adults in this country are decent, hard-working, honest Americans. It's the other lousy two percent that get all the publicity. But then--we elected them. -- Lily Tomlin (1939 - )
One of the indictments of civilizations is that happiness and intelligence are so rarely found in the same person. -- William Feather (1908 - 1976)
After two years in Washington, I often long for the realism and sincerity of Hollywood. -- Fred Thompson,
Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. - H. L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. - Voltaire (1694 - 1778)
I thought of myself as a species of knight errant attacking dragons single-handedly and rescuing virtue in distress.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:43 am 
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"Democracy is a lousy form of goverrnment,
but we have none better"

---Winston Churchill

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"I am not afraid... I was born to do this"

"Help yourself. God will help you" ( Aide toi. Dieu t'aidera. )

--- Joan of Arc


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:39 am 
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' It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.
History will be kind to me for I intend to write
it. '
Sir Winston Churchill


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:25 am 
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here is a part of Turkish Indepence March:
If the west side is walled by steel,
I have believed border guards, like my heart,
fear not, let it howl, how can that destroy this belief,
the one tooth monster, called Civilization.

civilizaiton is a thing created by western people to get eastern asleep...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:28 pm 
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Civilization begins with order,grows with liberty, and dies with peace.
:lol:







<a href="http://www.autoequation.com">buy here pay here car loans</a>


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:31 pm 
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I like to make friends with you,haha.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:59 pm 
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Democracy is a lousy form of goverrnment,
but we have none better"

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