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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:14 am 
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Zen Rebel
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Excellent thinking, Ma'au. Not the words of a madman at all. In such a mentally deranged society, the sane will certainly be branded as madmen.

Just to add that the misinformation and general ignorance is further supported by the state and state-controlled media, thus closing the symbiotic relationship between the State and the economical "elite".

You are very astute in your observations... at least, I judge them as such because they coincide with my own :D

che

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:55 am 
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Greta,
Thanks for mentioning SimpleLiving.net
I was there a few months ago and have posted my article in the environment forum.
sushil_yadav


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:00 pm 
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Sushil_yadav,

I finally got more time to read your article, and it was extremely fascinating. That was interesting the way you wrote the article in short sentences. It was much easier for me to process the information that way. You are definitely someone that thinks outside of the box; we need more people like you in this world.

This statement that you made in your article reaffirms my feelings about consumerism: "Consumerist-Lifestyle is just not sustainable. If we do not immediately return to living a very simple and frugal life then very soon there will be no human life on earth." I agree, we (industrial societies) are headed down a path of irreversible destruction. Unfortunately, I see no real solution in the future for this complex problem that we face. This would involve changing the minds of millions of people all over the world, and I find it extremely difficult to convince one individual of our need for drastic change.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:55 am 
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Phaedrus,

Cartoons have caused serious controversy around the world lately. Are you trying to cause trouble? Just kidding!
:)

Does the tiger agree or disagree, "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment"?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:18 am 
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The universe is corporeal; all that is real is material, and what is not material is not real.~Thomas Hobbes, The Leviathan. The tiger was named after Hobbes.

You cannot stop progress, which contains good and evil. I think the clue lies in Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Once we take care of the neccessities, humans will want to improve their lives even more. Do you want to remain in a hunting and gathering culture?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:04 am 
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The Sceptic
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Quote:
The universe is corporeal; all that is real is material, and what is not material is not real.~Thomas Hobbes, The Leviathan. The tiger was named after Hobbes.


Yet this is just quite a poor argument. There are many none material things that denying there existance seems unreasonable. The most prominent that comes to mind is Energy but now I think about it velocity even.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:31 am 
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Maslow's Hierarchy says nothing of increasing the influence of the Empire for all to achieve the first two levels. Sad, sad, sad...

Always at your service,
Ma'au

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:57 am 
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Zen Rebel
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Quote:
You cannot stop progress, which contains good and evil. I think the clue lies in Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Once we take care of the neccessities, humans will want to improve their lives even more. Do you want to remain in a hunting and gathering culture?


Do you want to cool off in a nuclear winter? Swim in New York Bay (formerly known as New York City)? Breathe some oxygen-free air? Perhaps take a stroll through a clear-cut forest? Or... go kayaking down a toxic river? Maybe even take a whiff from the perfume of the HUGE trash-heap that the world will become?

If not, don't talk to me about progress.

che

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:27 am 
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Phaedrus,

Thank you for your explanation. You have some interesting ideas. I agree, we do live in a material world, and most of our senses are attracted to those tangible things in our environment. Nevertheless, all of us have emotions, feelings, and thoughts. What Thomas Hobbes said seems to deny the inner part of humans; the part that no one sees. I really like this quote by Henri Frederic Amiel: "It is not what he had, or even what he does which expresses the worth of a man, but what he is."

You are right. We cannot stop progress, and I am not against all contemporary growth. As a matter of fact, I am typing on this computer because of modern technology. What I am saying is, many times there is a large price to pay for advancement. What appears to be "progress", may later turn out to be the road to disaster. Consider the consequences of industrialization on the environment. How do we (the human race) survive if all the natural resources of the planet have been depleted? "Only when the last tree has died and the last river been poisoned and the last fish been caught will we realize we cannot eat money." ~Cree Indian Proverb


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:53 am 
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The Sceptic
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As promised. WARNING THIS IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE LONG. Not least because it repeats most of the original post
******************
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Subject : In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
******************
Disagree. I see no reason why just becuase we are living in a fast paced world there is any reason for emotions to stop exisiting. Without evidence your claim is meaningless

*****************
Subject : A thinking mind cannot feel
*****************

Disagree. This to me certainly has no rational basis. Our minds are capable of using a wide range of skills and all evidence suggests that using one facet of this intelligence does not destroy the others/

************************
Subject : Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys the planet.
**********************
Not necessairly. Whilst it is true that scientific thinking has lead to many problems there is no reason why this trend will continue science has since reaslised the problems caused and is no moving towards feasible none damaging solutions such as Fusion power.

****************************8

Subject : Environment can never be saved as long as cities exist.

Not necessairly. See above.

********************************

Emotion is what we experience during gaps in our thinking.
*********************************

Really? Do you have any evidence at all that this is the case or is it just a nice thing to say to help your case.

**********************************8
Today people are thinking all the time and are mistaking thought (words/ language) for emotion.
**********************************
Don't see any reason why emotionss aren't thoughts. My division isthat there are thoughts within which there is a subset of emotions and a subset of rational thoughts. Talk to anyone doing maths evenand you will here things expressed as it 'felt' like the right thing to do. This is even more true of other logical exercieses like chess and programming.
**********************************

**********************************

When society switches-over from physical work (agriculture) to mental work (scientific/ industrial/ financial/ fast visuals/ fast words ) the speed of thinking keeps on accelerating and the gaps between thinking go on decreasing.
************************************
Agree but with minor reservations
************************************
There comes a time when there are almost no gaps.

People become incapable of experiencing/ tolerating gaps.

Emotion ends.

Man becomes machine.
******************************************8
Strongly disagree. Basically becuase you made a fundemental assumption that has no evidence. Where is the evidence that people no longer feel emotions? If anything increased stress etc. suggests that emotions are becoming stronger.
********************************************


A society that speeds up mentally experiences every mental slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.

A ( travelling )society that speeds up physically experiences every physical slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.

A society that entertains itself daily experiences every non-entertaining moment as Depression / Anxiety.

********************************************
Not really. Some days I work well and do a lot. Some days I don't feel up to working for some reason. During these days I don't feel depression or anxiety.

**********************************************8
FAST VISUALS /WORDS MAKE SLOW EMOTIONS EXTINCT.

SCIENTIFIC /INDUSTRIAL /FINANCIAL THINKING DESTROYS EMOTIONAL CIRCUITS.

***********************************************
Science etc. may not use emotional parts of the brain there is however no evidence that suggests that this enhibts those areas of the brain. Also scientific thought does not entirly neglect theese areas instead it places higher value on the more logical aspects of the brain.
***********************************************


A FAST (LARGE) SOCIETY CANNOT FEEL PAIN / REMORSE / EMPATHY.

A FAST (LARGE) SOCIETY WILL ALWAYS BE CRUEL TO ANIMALS/ TREES/ AIR/ WATER/ LAND AND TO ITSELF.

***********************************************
Disagree. Anyway how can you be cruel to no entities such as the air?
***********************************************
I am trying to get the following experiment conducted in a psychophysiology/ bio-chemistry laboratory.

***********************************************
So they were hypothesis then? Well make them sound like it
***********************************************
There is a link between visual / verbal speed ( in perception, memory,
imagery ) and the bio-chemical state of the brain and the body.

Emotion can intensify / sustain only when visual and verbal processing
associated with the emotion slows down ( stops / freezes ).

The degree of difficulty of an emotion depends upon the degree of
freezing (of visuals and words ) required to intensify and sustain that
particular emotion.
***********************************************
Again please don't express a hypthesis as a mattter of fact it is misleading
***********************************************

Experiment:

Subjects (preferably actors specialising in tragedy / tragic roles )
will be asked to watch a silent video film showing any of the
following:-

(1) Human suffering.
(2) Animal suffering.
(3) Suffering ( Destruction ) of Air / Water / Land / Trees.

Subjects will be asked to intensify and sustain the subjective feeling of pain/ grief for the sufferer.

The chemical changes associated with the emotion in the body(blood) would be measured by appropriate methods.

The silent video film will be shown at different speeds :
(1) 125% of actual speed.
(2) Actual/real speed.
(3) 75% of actual speed.
(4) 50% of actual speed.
(5) 25% of actual speed.


Results :

(1) Intensity of emotion increases with the decrease in visual speed.
(2) Intensity of emotion is maximum when visual speed is minimum (25%
of actual speed)

(3) The amount of chemical change associated with the emotion in the
body(blood) will be found to increase with the decrease in visual speed.

(4) The chemical change is maximum when visual speed is minimum.
(5) The amount of chemical change will increase with the decrease in
breathing rate. Breathing becomes so slow and non-rhythmic that it stops
for some time at the inhalation/ exhalation stages.

The above co-relations will be valid for all subjects -even for those who cannot feel pain/ grief. Such subjects will experience emotion associated with boredom/ discomfort/ restlessness/ irritability/ uneasiness. The chemicals released will be different but the co-relation between visual speed and amount of chemical will be same( the breathing rates will be different/ fast). All subjects will experience some kind of emotion.

[If scientists can discover 4000 different chemicals in cigarette-smoke then they can certainly detect the few chemicals released in blood when weexperience higher-level emotions like pain, empathy, compassion, remorse etc… ]

************************************************
Is this actuall experiment results or your predictions?
I really doubt the validitity of this expedirment it seems really biased.
Logical thought seems less sensible whenit is fast.
***********************************************

In the 2nd stage of experiment we shall replace the silent video film with a Narrator ( Audio only ) and repeat the procedure thereby establishing the link between intensity of emotion and verbal speed. The narrator will slow down verbal speed by-- speaking slowly, stretching words, repetition of words/ sentences & making use of pause/ silence between words.

Please note:
(1) A THINKING MIND CANNOT INTENSIFY / SUSTAIN ANY EMOTION.
While this statement is generally true for all emotions, it is
particularly true for all painful emotions.

(2) In a society in which visual ( verbal ) speed and breathing- rates
are fast , pain / remorse / empathy cannot be experienced. It is
impossible.



PROOF.
Proof of the link between pain and slow visuals / words :-

In the last century man has made thousands of movies / films on various
themes / subjects. Whenever pain / tragedy is shown in any film the
visuals ( scenes ) and words ( dialogues ) are always slowed down. In
many films tragedy is shown in slow motion. At the most intense moment
of pain the films almost become static / stationary.

Tragedy-films provide direct proof / evidence of the link between pain
and slowness.

Pain can intensify / sustain only when visual ( and verbal ) speed slows
down( stops/ freezes).


CHANGE IN VISUAL SPEED OVER THE YEARS


One thousand years ago visuals would change only when man physically
moved himself to a new place or when other people ( animals / birds )
and objects ( clouds / water ) physically moved themselves before him.

Today man sits in front of TV / Computer and watches the rapidly
changing visuals / audio.

He sits in a vehicle ( car / train / bus ) and as it moves he watches
the rapidly changing visuals.

He turns the pages of a book / newspaper / magazine and sees many
visuals / text in a short span.


CHANGE IN VERBAL SPEED OVER THE YEARS

In ancient times verbal processing was “live” in nature—ie it happened when people actually spoke. Today there is non-stop verbal processing inside the mind through print and electronic media ( newspapers, books, magazines, radio, television, computer etc…) as a result of which the verbal content & speed has increased thousands of times.


The speed of visuals ( and words ) has increased so much during the last
one hundred years that today the human brain has become incapable of
focussing on slow visuals /words through perception, memory, imagery.

If we cannot focus on slow visuals / words we cannot experience emotions associated with slow visuals /words.





Before the advent of Industrial Revolution Man's thinking was primarily
limited to :

(a) visual processing ( slow visuals )
(b) verbal / language processing ( slow words )

Today there are many kinds of fast thinking :

(1) visual processing ( fast visuals )
(2) verbal / language processing ( fast words )
(3) Scientific / Technical thinking ( fast )
(4) Industrial thinking ( fast )
(5) Business thinking ( fast )

(3), (4) & (5) ARE ASSOCIATED WITH NUMBERS / SYMBOLS / EQUATIONS / GRAPHS /CIRCUITS / DIAGRAMS / MONEY / ACCOUNTING etc…

As long as the mind is doing this kind of thinking it cannot feel any
emotion - not an iota of emotion.
*************************************
Just because one area is devoid of emotion doesn't make the mind empty of emotion
*************************************
In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
In a thinking ( scientific / industrial ) society emotion itself becomes extinct.

EMOTION IS WHAT REMAINS IN THE MIND WHEN VISUAL /VERBAL PROCESSING SLOWS DOWN (STOPS/ FREEZES )



There are certain categories of people who feel more emotion (subjective experience ) than others.

If we attempt to understand why (and how ) they feel more emotion we can learn a lot about emotion.

Writers, poets, actors, painters ( and other artists )

WRITERS
Writers do verbal ( and associated visual) processing whole day- every day.
They do slow verbal ( and associated visual) processing every day.
(A novel that we read in 2 hours might have taken 2 years to write. This is also the reason why the reader can never feel the intensity & duration of emotion experienced by the writer )

POETS
Poets do verbal ( and associated visual ) processing whole day- every day. There is more emotion in poetry than in prose. This happens because there are very few words ( and associated visuals ) in poetry than in any other kind of writing. There is a very high degree of freezing / slowing down of visuals & words in poetry.

ACTORS
Actors do verbal ( and associated visual ) processing whole day- every day. During shooting / rehearsal they repeat the dialogues ( words ) again and again ( the associated visuals / scenes also get repeated along with the dialogues )

PAINTERS
Painters do visual ( and associated verbal ) processing whole day- every day. They do extremely slow visual processing - The visual on the canvas changes only when the painter adds to what already exists on the canvas.


There are some important points to be noted :

All these people do visual & verbal processing - whole day - every day.
They do slow visual & verbal processing. They do not do scientific / industrial / business processing whole day - every day.

Most of the city people doing mental work either do this kind of mental processing which is associated with NUMBERS / SYMBOLS/ Equations / Graphs / CIRCUITS / DIAGRAMS / MONEY / ACCOUNTING etc… or they do fast visual ( verbal ) processing whole day - every day.

This kind of thinking ( processing ) has come into existence only during the last 200 years and has destroyed our emotional ability ( circuits ).
*******************************************
Saying this without evidence is pointless.
*******************************************





SELF-ASSESSMENT OF ( SUBJECTIVE ) INTENSITY OF EMOTION IS ALMOST ALWAYS WRONG.

Suppose the maximum intensity(and duration) of a particular emotion that
can be experienced by any human being is 100 units.

Let us suppose the maximum intensity(and duration) of that particular emotion ever
experienced by two people A & B in their entire life is :
A - 100units
B - 20 units

Now suppose A & B are made subjects on a particular day and are asked
to feel that particular emotion under experimental conditions ( or
outside the laboratory ) and the intensity &duration they actually experience is
:

A - 90 units
B - 18 units

If A & B are then asked to indicate the intensity &duration of emotion on a scale
of 0 -10 their response is likely to be ;

A - 9
B - 9

Who is right and who is wrong ?
A is right.
B is wrong - B is wrong by a wide margin - B has experienced an
intensity(and duration) of 18 units out of a maximum of 100 units and his correct /
actual score should be 1.8

Self- assessment ( self rating ) can be accurate only if people have
the capacity to experience the highest intensity &duration ( units ) of the
particular emotion under study.

*******************************************
Can you really have any emotion other than that experinced by the person. Also thinking of units of emotion seems odd.
********************************************


Because of physical work and slow visual/verbal processing in small(slow)agriculture based societies of the past, the mind used to experience a state of emotion all the time. If we read one thousand-year-old literature we will not come across the term "boredom" -the concept of boredom did not exist in slow societies. There were long gaps between different visuals and between words/ sentences -and people had the ability to experience/ tolerate the gaps -it was normal for them.

**********************************************
SO because we no longer have to wait a lot and therefore no longer
are as bored so we don't get as used to it.
**********************************************
Emotion can intensify / sustain only when visual / verbal processing slows down ( stops / freezes ). In an Industrial (thinking) society people experience very little emotion because of fast ( visual / verbal / scientific / industrial / business ) thinking

Suppose the maximum intensity and duration of a particular emotion ( for most people ) in a fast society has reduced to 5 units ( from 100 units that people used to experience in earlier /slower societies ).
********************************************
Where is your evidence for this. Lots of ifs without evidence makes no evidence
********************************************
If such people experience 4 units of emotion they will give themselves a
rating /score of 8 on a scale of 0-10 whereas their actual score should
be 0.4

IN A FAST SOCIETY SLOW EMOTIONS BECOME EXTINCT.
*******************************************
GIVE ME EVIDENCE then I might belive you.
*******************************************




IQ Vs EQ

IQ always has an element of change in it – IQ is about trying to make/ discover/ invent something new all the time.
Change is an inherent feature of IQ.
IQ is also about thinking more in less time—it involves speeding up of mind. Someone who does more mathematics in less time is considered more intelligent in mathematics. IQ is about change and speed.

EQ is about sustainment of the same feeling/experience over a period of time. When we experience any higher-level emotion for 10 minutes we experience the same feeling( subjective experience) over and over again for 10 minutes.
The( same) feeling can sustain only if there is Repetition.
EQ involves Repetition—Constancy—Sameness.
****************
IQ and EQ are contradictory.
IQ and EQ are opposites.
****************
Not convienced the most passionate people I know are the most intelligent
any improved area of brain improves all brain funcitons
****************
IQ and EQ are inversely proportional.
****************
Give me evidence. Inversely proportional is a very specific scientific term and I think you have no evidence that this is the case.



(1) A thinking species destroys the planet.
(2) Animals lived on earth for billions of years (in very large numbers)
without destroying nature.
******************
Well that depends. Virsuses kill animals. Some species have goene extinct due to competition.
******************
(3) They did not destroy nature because their thinking / activity was
limited to searching for food for one time only.
******************
True of a number but not of all species
******************
(4) Man has existed on earth in large numbers for only a few thousand
years / a few hundred years.
(5) Within this short period Man has destroyed the environment.
(6) This destruction took place because of Man's thinking.
(7) When man thinks he makes things.
(8) When he makes things he kills animals / trees / air / water / land.
( Nothing can be made without killing these five elements of nature ).
*****************
Not really the case necessairly. We could live in a state near to our state now if we were careful indeed I would argue that it is a lack of adequate thought that leads to the problems youhave suggested.
******************
(9) A thinking species destroys the planet.

**************************
Intelligence Is A Curse.

This planet is on the verge of total destruction.

The cause of destruction is – overactivity.
[Out of millions of species in this world the human-species is the only one that has indulged in overactivity]

The cause of overactivity is – Intelligence.
[The environment would never have got destroyed if Man had been only as intelligent as animals]
*******************************
So intelligence is a particularly efficient tool. Nothing you can sensible do to prevent it
******************************
Intelligence is the biggest cause/ source of destruction in this world.

[In fact Intelligence is the only cause of destruction in this world other than natural causes]
*****************************
Wonderful statement other than that not caused by intelligence, intelligence causes all problems. I agree
*****************************



MENTAL WORK IS INJURIOUS TO THE MIND AND PLANET.

There is no higher purpose behind work.

People do not work because they want to work.
People work because they cannot stop working.

People cannot stop physical activity and mental activity (simultaneously) for even 2 minutes.
**************************************
Except sleep, meditation etc. Anyway the same is true of all intelligent life forms (Counting as intelligent anthing with a concious mind)

For most people it is a choice between physical and mental work.
The switch-over from physical work to mental work is disastrous for the planet.




Man can do the same physical work every day.
Man cannot do the same mental work every day.


When man used to do physical work ( farming and related activities ) he could do the same repetitive work day after day- generation after generation.

After the Industrial Revolution when man switched-over to mental work he
began a never ending process of making new machines / things / products--
a process which can only end with the complete destruction of environment ( planet ).


The nature of mental work is such that man has to do new mental work every day- in fact he has to do new mental work every moment- Man cannot repeat in the next moment the mental work that he has already done in the previous moment.
*************************
This is because the same mental work is pointless. In the same way you would not keep on fixing a door after it was fixed.
*************************

A mathematician cannot solve the same problem of mathematics every day- once he has solved it he will be forced to take up a new( unsolved) problem. Even when he is solving one particular problem he has to move from one step to another - there is a continuous change involved -- there is no constancy at any stage.

An engineer cannot design the same machine again and again –once he has made a machine he will try to make changes/ design a new one.

A writer cannot write the same article every day- he will be forced to write something new every day/ every moment (This is also the reason behind endless discussions/ debates/ arguments).
***************************
No the reason behind constant discussions is a diffrence of opinion.
***************************




Discussions, Debates and Arguments.

Let us examine how much discussion we are collectively having in Industrial Society every day.

Millions of pages in print – newspapers / books / magazines.
Millions of web-pages on internet every day.

Now add to this all the conversation (discussion) we are having through radio / television / telephone and several other media every day.

And add to this all the discussion we are having through face-to-face interaction.

The volume of discussion per individual in one week is greater than the total discussion someone living in pre-industrial society would have in his entire life.
*******************************
I disagree though it was the case for the uneducated. This was because without adequate intelligent rational thought is impossible
*********************************
There is too much discussion in modern society.
Discussion is not solving our problems – discussion itself has become a problem – a gigantic problem.
***********************************
Discussion is not solving problems on its own but without it we would be less informed and would not know
***********************************


A society that does mental work will discuss itself to destruction [extinction]

A society that does mental work will argue itself to destruction [extinction]

A society that does mental work will debate itself to destruction [extinction]

****************************
Why does debate lead to destruction
****************************


A society that does mental work can never stop discussions / debates / arguments – it is impossible. It will discuss / debate / argue till the last moment of it’s existence.


Discussions / Debates / Arguments – these are creations of a society that has switched-over from physical work to mental work.

Discussions / Debates / Arguments – these are diseases of a society that has switched-over from physical work to mental work.

**************
No, they are very useful.
**************

Discussions / debates / arguments can end only in agriculture-based societies that do physical work.

We cannot do physical-work and mental-work simultaneously.

There is an inverse relationship between physical-work and mental-work.
If one is high [more] the other has got to be low [less]
**********************
So. What is wrong with doing no more physical work than necessary. I know nobody that enjoys physical work as much as people who enjoy mental work
*********************
If we want to do physical work we have to reduce mental activity by the same proportion.
If we want to do mental work we have to reduce physical activity by the same proportion.


There is very little discussion / debate / argument in societies that do physical work - ie, agriculture-based societies - And this is the reason why they are millions of times saner than industrial societies.
***************************
This is becuase they aren't sufficently intelligent to be capable of debate. This doesn't make them more sane
***************************





Change is an inherent feature of mental work.

Since change is an inherent feature of mental work - a society that does mental work can never be at peace with itself – it is impossible.

A society that does mental work will always be restless.

Only those societies that do physical work [agriculture and related activities] can find contentment and peace.

********************************
I and many others find contentment after a sucessful soultion to a problem wether the problem is primarly physical or mental
*******************************



AS LONG AS CITIES EXIST WE CAN NEITHER SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT NOR THE MIND.

To save the [ remaining ] environment from destruction man will have to
return back to physical work [ smaller communities ].

To save the mind from mental diseases man will have to return back to physical work [ smaller communities ].

************************************
No evidence what so ever suggests that doing mental work makes the mind more succeptable to mental disease in fact the reverse it true
************************************



Criminality and Abnormality.

Industrial Society has collectively killed billions of Animals and Trees [ Remember -plant and animal species developed over a period of millions ofyears]

It has also killed most of Water and Air [ Please note - polluting Water and Air is equivalent to killing Water and Air ]
*****************************
Why is pollution equivalent to killing. Air can be purified water can be distilled
****************************
The soil was not fertile when the earth was created. It became fertile - very slowly - over a period of millions of years. And look what man has done - He has covered millions and millions of hectares of land with cement and concrete. All the land that has been covered with cement and concrete has been killed.
*******************************
Man has also produce fertile land from infertile land
*******************************

Man has stockpiled thousands of tonnes of highly radioactive nuclear material and nuclear waste which is going to remain highly radioactive and carcinogenic for the next thousands of years - and which has already leaked into the environment hundreds of times.
*********************************
Yet theese substances came from the environment. Highly radioactive material has a higher half life so lasts less
**********************************

What could be more criminal than this.
What could be more abnormal than this.


Lawyers and Judges are trying to catch a few criminals.
They don’t realize the entire Industrial Society is criminal.

Psychologists and Psychiatrists are trying to classify a few people as abnormal.
They don’t realize the entire Industrial Society is abnormal.
***********************************
Why is it abnormal? Even if it is why is this bad?
************************************




Industrial Society is collectively making millions of tonnes of weapons and explosives [of all kinds] every year – and then it wonders why there is so much violence in this world.

Big Mystery.

If you make millions of tonnes of weapons and explosives on earth they are going to be used on earth – they are not going to be used on Mars.






Make things
Buy things
Sell things

This is not the purpose of life.

**************
There is little or no purpose to life so why can't we enjoy it wile were here
***************
Destroy Shopping Culture.

No one deserves more.
Everyone deserves less.


There was a time when Man knew nothing about the number of species and millions of species existed.
Today Man knows the names of millions of species and nothing is left of the species.




It took millions of years for millions of species to slowly come into existence on earth - and man has decimated all other species.

After destroying millions of highly-developed species on earth Man is today searching for a few molecules of life in outer-space.

If a few microbes, a few molecules of methane / water are found on Mars - it becomes the newspaper headline.

They call it progress.

***************
Many species have been destroyed by man. This is undeniably true. Though people only seem to care about the nice looking ones. Nobody wonders if we should bring back smallpox.
***************

The following is about to come true.

Nature can exist

(1) before man.
(2) after man.
(3) not with man.

**************
Why? Nobody before realised the damage being done now we do things have changed
***************
Environment can be saved only if we stop production of most [ more than
99% ] of the consumer goods we are making today.

ENVIRONMENT CANNOT BE SAVED BY RECYCLING

THE ATTEMPT OF AN INDUSTRIAL SOCIETY TO SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT BY RECYCLING IS LIKE SHOOTING SOMEONE
10,000 TIMES AND THEN TRYING TO SAVE HIM BY TAKING OUT ONE BULLET.

*****************
Why if we stop using more resources than we repalce we are doing no damage so there is no problem
*****************



Time is running out for this planet.

*****************
Prehaps but that dosn'tmean science can'tsave us remember it is science that alerts us to theese problems
*****************

Yours Sincerely,
Sushil Yadav


Please note :
Fast emotions =emotions associated with fast visuals/fast words/fast breathing/fast heart-rate.
Slow emotions=emotions associated with slow visuals/slow words/slow breathing/slow heart-rate.
Rate of thinking=number of visuals/words processed per minute.
Gaps between thinking =gaps between visuals/ words/ sentences.



****************Got bored at this point.

_________________
"The Truth may be out there but the lies are in your head"
"I tend to think if God wanted us to believe in him he'd exist."


Last edited by sigsfried on Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:15 pm 
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The fact remains, progress will not be stopped. It is our responsibility, our duty, as human beings to control the progress and protect the environment. There are many positive things that have come from industrialization-medical advances, scientific and technological advances. We have also paid a handsome price for some of these innovations. The problems are complex and we do not have simplistic answers for them. Somehow, we must strike a balance between our achievements for the future and the effects they will have on nature and mankind.

Perhaps, for starters, we really need to focus on curbing population growth. I challenge anyone to submit a plan for this that will be acceptable across all cultures?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:28 pm 
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Quote:
The fact remains, progress will not be stopped.


Don't be so sure. Anything can happen... Never say never.

che

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Re vera, cara mea, mea nil refert.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:30 pm 
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Phaedrus wrote:
There are many positive things that have come from industrialization-medical advances, scientific and technological advances.


Yes! I would not even be alive today were it not for progress and medical advances.

Phaedrus wrote:
Perhaps, for starters, we really need to focus on curbing population growth. I challenge anyone to submit a plan for this that will be acceptable across all cultures?


Well, it would be unethical to force people not to have children as they do in China. The only real solution is readily available birth control and education of the masses.

_________________
Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.
~Bertrand Russell


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:07 pm 
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Anajo & Phaedrus,

I agree, birth control would be part of the solution to the problem of over-population in the world; convincing people to use it would be a big challenge in itself.


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