Quotations and Literature Forum

Oh and while I'm talking "religion is not science", here's some hate for scientology. I'm going to call my dog "cat" from now on.

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I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be.

Hello. Here I am again.

Anajo and Unnil and whomever really cares, or not,

My entire post is credited to Lee Strobel. I watched his 5-minute video, and I was convinced via logical consequence. The Steady State theory has been disproved by radiation. The Earth is finite. It had to have been created.

Side discussion: How is time finite?

Yes, I do. He has revealed Himself in His word, through nature and through His Son Jesus. Is that what you believe?
Let me know.

ppattyq

I think, Thomas me lad, the problem is with the source of the creation. I doubt anyone thinks life, the universe and everything just popped into being.
On the other hand, given the immense number of contradictions, conventional religion seems an unreliable source of information.

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السلام عليكم

Frequently, a person will think there are contradictions, but it is usually because they are not understanding the scriptures. I'm assuming you are not a part of what you refer to as conventional religion. What "way" do you follow?

The belief in a creator of the universe does not equal religious.
The belief in a creator of the universe does not equal "I am going to follow all of these because I want to be saved."

It DNE: belief in the Qur'an, Bible, Jesus, Buddha, Abraham, angels, Talmud, reincarnation, and SO MANY other elements that I am missing, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Religion is ORGANIZED. There are symbols and practices and prayer and tradition and priests and pastors and rabbis and codes and consequences and good people and bad people and stupid people and smart people and people who love it and don't quite understand it and people like you and people like me and people like Bid Laden and Hitler and Barack Obama and John McCain and Queen Elizabeth and Nicole Kidman and my mom and your dad and his cousin twice removed.

It is possible to believe in a creator, whatever he or she or it is, or they are, without the aforementioned point made above.

So let's leave religious explanations out of this because "Let there be light" obviously is NOT sufficient.

The earth is finite. It has time and it has space. These were created.

We've already discussed this... to no avail.

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Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.
~Bertrand Russell

Well, to yours and mine, no?

I had once explained that all of my answers to your questions about Catholic teaching and Christ and the like were from information that I learned from my classes. So I therefore explained that these are not MY beliefs, and I went on to explain what it is I *do* believe. Discussion of the Big Bang, existence and time and space and the belief in a creator, and I included nothing in my explanation about religion.

You asked questions and I answered them. There was no challenge, no imposition, no hurt feelings. Just discussion and ideas. Very much avail.

I think religion developed as a way of explaining the world, rituals and prayer are a form of attempting to manipulate, maybe thats not the right word, change/alter the environment in the interests of the praying party. This is similar to the goals and ambitions of science - now we 'know' more about the environment we can act in more definate ways to manipulate it. For the God-believing mind, prayer for rain is just as rational as a scientist using fertilizer.

Rituals of religion have become more part of everyday life and provide people with their sense of wellbeing, belonging, purpose, etc...

Personally, I don't think religion itself is a bad thing, so long as people are willing to accept that everyone has a right to practice their own beliefs in their own way (not mentioning any names- Islamic Jihad, the pro-life lobby).

The great difficulty is when science vs religion becomes an issue. The power of faith-healers for example, may be more comfortable for an individual than going to hospital, even though the latter is proven to be more reliable. I'm pro-choice in this sort of situation, however, where an individual (ie. a child, a disabled person) is unable to decide for themselves we are open to a great many arguments as to the best cause of treatment. Does the secular government enforce medical treatment, or do they allow the 'loved-ones', who in theory have the best intentions for the ill person, to practice their own beliefs which they are comfortable with? It's catch 22.



In a slightly unrelated yet related note, has anyone read 'The God Dellusion'?

Tommy, we already discussed this many pages back. I am completely befuddled as to why you ignore what it is that we've already discussed and why you insist on pretending as though we haven't already covered these topics.

Why? why? why?.... sigh....

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Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.
~Bertrand Russell

Lol, pretending.... That's awesome. I'm deemed as the exhausting befuddler. Why, you ask? Because questions were asked of me and because what I believe was being misconstrued with certain textbook answers that I don't really believe in. Just stating my case, was all.

Moshei, I did not read The God Delusion. I am slightly interested because I enjoy tuning in to different perspectives. I probably will read it some time down the road, but my reading interests as of late include essays, philosophy and some fundamental classics. Did you? What did you think? Were your beliefs changed or did you shrug it off?

I'm part way through reading it. Its a bit preaching to the converted, but I think Dawkins is over-critical and harsh about religion. Yes, there are issues, but he forgets he has put his own FAITH in his scientific beliefs. He is dogmatic about rejecting dogmas. I wonder what the world will make of him in 1000 years- Draconian? Ignorant? Hypocritical?

Still it is an interesting to read. I'm not sure what I believe and to be honest, Dawkins hasn't really changed my mind. I veer toward secular humanist, but there are aspects of it I don't agree with. In a postmodern way I think we can never know the truth for certain.

I would like to draw attention to Karl Popper, who stated that, despite a lack of evidence to support its existence, one could never disprove that black swans exist, as we are limited to our own perception. In other words, we can never disprove anything.

I can prove that God exists.

God exists at least in some people's imaginations. This means that God exists somewhere. Therefore, God exists.

Using that logic, Transformers, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Spiderman, Batman, Superman, The Simpsons, Felix the Cat and the Bogeyman are all real beings. I suppose I can now look forward to meeting some of my childhood hero's. Lady Penelope was my first love and I can't wait for the chance to have a cappuccino with Captain Scarlett.

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السلام عليكم

And, all of these could become true

...

in your imagination.