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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:14 pm 
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The Sceptic
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Sorry I din't really explain myself. If they are hostile they must be definition be warlikke. To reach a technolgy capable of travelling long distances it is logical to assume they have developed increadibly powerful weapons. If this is the case then they will have already wiped themselves out. Also if they have sirvived our military as it is would pose them no threat.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:55 pm 
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QuoteMaster
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We went from talking about intelligence to aliens attacking. lol. Gotta love the places these forums can go.

Anyways, I rekon with all the planets out there, and all the suns theres gotta be the chance of life. It probably wont be as sophisticated as us, but i still rekon its a pretty big possibility.

Actually, i think they could be equally likely to be peacful. Imagine if in a few hundred years, humans had the ability to travel to any planet they wanted. Do you think we would be there to attack them? "I think not, vwieny puppy."


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:47 am 
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Yeah I know, isn't it funny how these conversations get off the beaten track. Where do you think I get half my ideas from. Someone makes a statement and my mind goes wheeling out of control. Lol! :lol:

Raven

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:44 am 
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Sorry for the double post, but I have a question that I forgot to state.

Nemesis,
What makes you so sure that we would not be there to attack them? The US has tried to take over so many countries. Going back to the subject of survival, our society depends on technology in ways to survive. This will eventually kill us, but if these planets were more advanced, whats to say we wouldn't try to take them over? Yes, they could be stronger than us, but in the US it would only take one person to hit a button and destroy the world. For instande: The Matter Bomb

Raven

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:04 am 
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QuoteMaster
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If we do manage to make it to another hospitible planet, and its public knowledge, I dont think that America alone will be allowed to explore it.

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our society depends on technology in ways to survive.


If where so advanced that we can travel thousands of light years to other planets, I'm sure we will have sufficient technology to survive.

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but if these planets were more advanced, whats to say we wouldn't try to take them over?


Personally, I think the risk of a universal war would be pretty major. Without learning about the culture first, we would have no idea of what there capable of, or who their friends are. Time spent in reconasance is never wasted.

It would be a much smarter approach to bargain for the technology. Or purhaps at first pretend to be their friends, find out all the information you need, and then make a decision.

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but in the US it would only take one person to hit a button and destroy the world


But what is the point of destroyting alien planets (assuming their not trying to kill us) ? We would be destroying any reason we have for attacking them in the first place.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:54 pm 
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Enigma
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What was the point of the terrorists flying two jet planes into the World Trade Centers? Just because you see no point in something, or don't agree with a point, doesn't mean there isn't someone out there crazy enough about the idea to end millions of lives over it.
Yang

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:09 pm 
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The Sceptic
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THe terrorists thought they had a good reason to do it. To be fair whilst I in no way sympathise with their methods they did have a point. Still do really.

Ahh well if the JIC are going to monitor me they might as well have something intresting to read

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:36 pm 
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If we do manage to make it to another hospitible planet, and its public knowledge, I dont think that America alone will be allowed to explore it.


You are right, America alone would not be the only one to want to explore it or be able to explore it. But just like what happened when there was land avaliable, countries would fight over who would get there first.

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If where so advanced that we can travel thousands of light years to other planets, I'm sure we will have sufficient technology to survive.


Ah! Well heres an example: Right now we have sufficient technology to survive, but a lot of our survival depends on natural resources from the Earth. What happens when we run out of these resources, such as trees, oil, ext. How do we survive then when we are so used to living with technology? Either people would have to get used to the fact of living in the old ways, or we would all die off. This is if we don't find some other fuel to power our new technology.

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But what is the point of destroyting alien planets (assuming their not trying to kill us) ? We would be destroying any reason we have for attacking them in the first place.


I was simply stating that even if they were more powerful than us, the US still could have a chance of taking them over. With just that small chance in hand, they would take it. Only for the reason of advancing our technology, to become powerful, to conquer and control, and finally to be put up on a pedistal. But if it ever got to the point where the US believed they couldn't win, like Yin said:

Quote:
Just because you see no point in something, or don't agree with a point, doesn't mean there isn't someone out there crazy enough about the idea to end millions of lives over it.


So we are brought back to the same problem we started with: How can we learn to live to survive without domination and destruction?

Raven

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:42 pm 
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QuoteMaster
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Your ripping my arguments to shreds. This is bloody fun!!

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But just like what happened when there was land avaliable, countries would fight over who would get there first.


Like Antarctics? (Many of the major countries now share a part of it)

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What happens when we run out of these resources, such as trees, oil, ext.


This is where technology steps in. Technology to harness the energy from the sun, wind and water. Hydrogen will be instigated as a renewable energy force in the not to distant future. All these sources of energy are virtually infinite in terms of the life expectancy of the planet.

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Either people would have to get used to the fact of living in the old ways, or we would all die off


I disagree. Technology has already propelled us to where we are, and we can expect more from it. The only reason that where still burning oils/gases etc. is that it is easy and cheap to do so. It doesnt mean that it is all we can do.

Recently I read somewhere that we have deplete nearly all of our clean oil sources, but we still have dirty sources ie. ones with many more impurities in them.

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This is if we don't find some other fuel to power our new technology.


See above.

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With just that small chance in hand, they would take it.


That wouldnt be the smartest thing to do, however. And, although i dont like America and would love nothing more to think of it as stupid, there currently a superpower for a reason.

They would, in all likelyhood, assess the situation and only attack if they have a strong chance of winning. If they are attacking for the reasons you said (technologyu advancement, control etc.), I dont think that blowing the planet to smithareens would help their cause.

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doesn't mean there isn't someone out there crazy enough about the idea to end millions of lives over it.


I hardly consider the millatary strategics that America employs can be considered 'crazy' though.


Quote:
How can we learn to live to survive without domination and destruction?


I think it will always be a part of life. Purhaps when, or more correctly if, we remove the reasons for the domination and destruction, we will remove it. But then, what of the wars caused over religion, over land, over love. I think that it can be acheived through a complete unionisation of all countries, ideals and thoughts. But that in itself is a form of domination (and purhaps one of the worst)


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:43 pm 
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Like Antarctics? (Many of the major countries now share a part of it)


Yes, you are exactly right.

Also look at what the US did to the Native Americans. This was their land before it was ours, and we have pretty much destroyed there lives, and taken from them what they held dear for our own benefits.

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Technology to harness the energy from the sun, wind and water.


You make a good point, and one that we should have all realized a long time ago. Maybe the world would have been better off using these infinate sources of power.

Quote:
They would, in all likelyhood, assess the situation and only attack if they have a strong chance of winning. If they are attacking for the reasons you said (technologyu advancement, control etc.), I dont think that blowing the planet to smithareens would help their cause.


It is still a possibility. You get those people out there that say "If I can't have it, then no one will" Then everything is blown apart. Greed can do some amazing things to people.

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I hardly consider the millatary strategics that America employs can be considered 'crazy' though.


You have no idea!

Tootles,
Raven
:wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:55 pm 
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QuoteMaster
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Quote:
Also look at what the US did to the Native Americans. This was their land before it was ours, and we have pretty much destroyed there lives, and taken from them what they held dear for our own benefits.


A very simmlar thing occured with the 'invasion' of Australia. The native Aboriginies lost all their land, and it was only not to long ago that any of it was returned.

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Maybe the world would have been better off using these infinate sources of power.


Yeah, but at the moment i think the other non-renuable sources are cheaper and more effectient at being converted into energy. Eventually where gonna have to switch to renewable. It will be interesting to see where the world heads when this happens. I know ive seen a couple of hydrogen buses floating around the city, with the only by-product being water.

Quote:
It is still a possibility. You get those people out there that say "If I can't have it, then no one will" Then everything is blown apart. Greed can do some amazing things to people.


Agreed, but i cant imagine the worlds largest superpower thinking with this rationale.

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You have no idea!


lol. Dont I know it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:54 pm 
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The Sceptic
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Antartica has every bit of it claimed by at least three countries firstly Britian and France claim dominion over it all. America and Russia about 3/4 each etc. hardly cooperation just nobody is quite ready to go to war over what is basically a giant block of ice. However when the oil underneath it is allowed to be used it could be diffrent.

The renewable energy can not realisitically ever make up more than 20% of demand and non renewables are set to run out in 40 years. Hydrogen Fusion is the only real solution but that is 50 years away at least. Though the money France in particular is investing may turn this round and make up the 10 year gap. Well before we run out of oil though we will have to have stopped using it if we want to have an environment less hostile than Venus.

Oh and the reason America is the one superpower. Lots of resources and following isolationist policies.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:53 am 
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QuoteMaster
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I thought that Australia claimed sovereignty over the majority of Antarctica?

I got this off some random website:

Quote:
It has no indigenous people, as has the Arctic. Pie-slice sections are claimed by seven nations -- the United Kingdom, Argentina, Chile, Australia, New Zealand, France, and Norway. Neither the United States nor the Soviet Union, prime players on the southern stage, claims Antarctic territory nor honors the claims of others;


Hmmm... i did some more reading and found the general gist of things was that no one really can agree on who owns what parts. Australia claims to control 42% of it, but then other countries claim areas that overlap. Odd.


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The renewable energy can not realisitically ever make up more than 20% of demand


Purhaps not right now, but what about technology advancements? When solar panels and wind farms become more effecient at energy transformations. Think of all the deserts and wastelands around Australia, and the potential they have to be turned into solar farms.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:26 am 
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The Sceptic
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I may have been wrong about the countries invovled in Antractica though I was more or less copying a textbook.

The renewable energy making 20% of demand is the estimate of maximum potential not what we can get at the moment.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:53 pm 
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QuoteMaster
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Quote:
The renewable energy making 20% of demand is the estimate of maximum potential not what we can get at the moment.


I find that a little hard to believe, Im afraid. Just in reference to Australia, we have cattle stations here that are half the size of Britain. Imagine if we covered one of those with solar panels with max potential.


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