Quotations and Literature Forum

BAM, Che was here.

_________________
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be.

Thank goodness that he put an end to this holier-than-thou sh--.

_________________
Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.
~Bertrand Russell

So, I think we are all in agreement (or at least overwhelmed by a shitload of evidence) that everybody lies. I mean, we really do. Intentionally or not, maliciously or not, by a vicious twist of circumstances or a malicious campaign to defame and slander, we all like to put makeup on truth, however ugly she may be.

So what I really think this topic should be about is: whether one can or indeed SHOULD do his very best to live a life completely devoid of lies- whether those are lies one tells oneself or others, it doesn't matter...

In short: is lying in and of itself an immoral act, or is it amoral- devoid of any ethical value, one way or another?

I believe that a lie, aside from the moral implications of the act, is a means to an end. It is never an end in and of itself. And since we have established that EVERYBODY without exception DOES lie, we come down to motivations.

One tells a white lie to protect someone from the harmful consequences of knowing the truth, believing that not knowing it will not hurt them, or hurt them comparably less.

This is an example of GOOD motivations isn't it? But what happens when one misjudges the nature of the situation and ends up hurting the person being lied to even more? Will one say that this is due to the inherent amorality of the act of lying and accuse the liar, for liar he/she is, or should one point out that it was merely a case of a given set of circumstances resulting in unfavorable results?

Inversely, when one lies, manipulates or misleads for his own selfish gain, yet somehow his machinations end up in an inordinate amount of gain for a large group of people, is the act of USING lies for personal gain evil, bearing in mind the positive outcome of this person's actions?

There are many examples. Politicians, whom we stereotype as vicious and unscrupulous liars and puppet-masters are stereotyped for a reason. Because they ARE. And yet, by their actions, many positive outcomes have been arranged (loath as I may be to admit it).


My point is: lying is a tool. You can use it, if you know how, to the benefit of many, including yourself, and you can abuse it to the detriment of many, again- including yourself.


It's all well and good that God says that we should not lie. But God also fucked up Sodom and Gomorrah so it's really a moot point.

I hope I find you healthy, cheerful and as deceitful as only humans can be.

che

_________________
Re vera, cara mea, mea nil refert.

"I have George Washington hips, because George Washington never lied."

_________________
"I learned to stick up to myself today, you're not angry are you?"

THD, please tell me that that is an actual quote, that would make my entire day right there.

_________________
Sanctuary: a small safe place in a troubling world

Sorry, it's not the wisdom of socrotese, just something that a freind said.

_________________
"I learned to stick up to myself today, you're not angry are you?"

As the great Mark Twain once said, "It takes some sense to write this nonsense."
So, I guess, then, that you have to have talent and a tad bit of sense to lie.
It just comes naturally to some people.

Also a good memory. Keeping track of a lot of lies is really hard. Keeping them peppered with hefty amounts of irrelevant truth makes it easier.

I prefer avoidance of the issue to outright lying. If you play your cards right, the poser of the question won't remember what he/she asked you in the first place.

Also, verbal diarrhea sometimes successfully muddles the truth. You can run circles around someone simply by being deliberately vague and needlessly verbose. Fast talking is cool too. How are they going to see the lie if you trap them in rapid-fire, be vague, avoid the issue and use loads of meaningless words?

And there you are. You can now be a good politician.

_________________
Re vera, cara mea, mea nil refert.

True Che, obfustication and confusion are wonderful. Ask me about anything I'm not happy to tell about and I'll start the answer with something my great x3 gradparents did and the whole chain of minor events which lead to me doing whatever I did. Most give up less that a 1/4 of the way through.

_________________
السلام عليكم

If Liars are talented then there is a good chance of them doing well in the field of polictics..

_________________
Ishrat Noor Khan

I agree ... guess their (politics) C.Vs must carry the broad lying experience!



Libra.

_________________
Being a lady is an attitude.

It sure takes some talent to lie convincingly. It is a bit like a good actor at his or her best.

I prefer half truths. I can take the truth and make it a lie. It's a very bad talent of mine. I'm also the greatest manipulator of my family. I love playing reverse psychology on people. What can I say...I learned from my Grandmother the Pro. Anyways, I also learned that the way my family used it against each other was wrong. I only do it when I think it's for a good reason, or when it is absolutely necessary. I'm being honest here, so don't take my talent here for something bad when I don't use it that way. Oh, and please don't label me as a liar. I am the most honest person you will ever meet. I have this guilt problem, so I can't lie very often to people. It only comes out in me when it's a dire situation.

Raven

_________________
"You must learn there is a time to speak all of the truth, and a time to govern your tongue."
~Verin (The Wheel of Time)