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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:31 pm 
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That is an opinion.
A truth is backed up by fact, and by nature.

The reason that "Murder is wrong" is always wrong is because it disrupts nature. The cycle of life; the harmony.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:44 pm 
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If I lived in an antarctic region would not fact and nature make it true?

Mouldy bread is a good thing?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:58 am 
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Been following this great but confusing discussion with difficulty, so went to the dictionary:

1. TRUTH Quality or state of being true...........(or accurate or honest or sincere etc.)

2. a) TRUE In accordance with fact or reality

b) TRUE in accordance with reason(whose?) or correct principles (whose?) or accepted standard (whose?)..................

So that implies truth can be both fact or flexible

Mind you FACT is defined as "Thing certainly known to have occurred or be TRUE............

So even facts could be flexible ?

My personal preference is to believe facts to be provable whereas truth could vary with a perceived reality, but that is just my opinion.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:08 pm 
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If truth relies on fact, religion is in a bit of trouble, as is law.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:12 pm 
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DSW wrote:
If truth relies on fact, religion is in a bit of trouble, as is law.


Ah, but this is where get-out clause b) comes into play! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:38 pm 
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Clause B. suggests truth to be whatever you want it to be, since all three measures are subjective. Even the earlier mentioned reality is open to debate.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:03 pm 
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Exactly - however in general one would hope and expect those various reasons, principles and standards were based on decency and commonsense, justice and equality etc.


Different people/groups/communities/cultures will have different definitions for those qualities, leading to some very different "Truths", but not necessarily bad or wrong - just different.
But also leading to some very twisted versions of Truth.

So, do "seekers after Truth" only gain one truth of many?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:38 am 
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Did you know that if we could trust that most rare commodity, 'common sense' we would not need traffic lights or all those bloody annoying signs.

Another variation on the original, facts are for scientists, truth is for philosophers.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:29 pm 
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Thanks for chipping in, gumtree.

An opinion backed up by cold, hard, scientific fact would make that opinion true, no?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:26 pm 
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Or once it became fact it would move past being an opinion.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:18 pm 
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I agree with that statement. Does that mean that What Is True Is True? If not, why not?

Back to the original idea:
The way one interprets/sees/perceives something doesn't change or create reality/what is true.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:40 pm 
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I think it does, for the same reasons as I question what truth is.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:27 am 
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This may interest you both, I was looking up reality and found all these other opinions re fact and truth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality

Now I am totally and utterly confused and shall retire to my own personal reality. DSW, I believe yours is uncomfortably hot just now - my sympathies 8)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:07 am 
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"I believe yours is uncomfortably hot just now - my sympathies"

And that's the truth!

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 Post subject: Re: Agree or Disagree
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:30 pm 
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Tommy GS wrote:
The way one interprets/sees/perceives something doesn't change or create reality/what is true.



Everything could be agreed or disagreed upon ... point is; how we live with both opinions peacefully. Debate is the main theme of life hence, we should proceed more smoothly and smartly.

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