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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 5:11 pm 
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Oh, one of mine, too. By the way, the beginning of Woody Allen's "Curse of the Jade Scorpion" reminded me a little of "The Catbird Seat"--so much, I was sure the film was going that way, but it turned out a bit differently. Excellent, fun film, with an allusion or two to "Double Indemnity." Have you seen it?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2002 3:08 pm 
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No, I really need to see that one. I enjoy a good Woody Allen flick, or even most bad ones for that matter.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2002 3:51 pm 
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Oh, me, too--I'm a sucker for a witty script. But this one's a gem. Let me know when you've seen it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2002 10:39 pm 
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RE: "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war"...

No mention of this one in "The Expanded Quotable Einstein". The closest one is this:

"Striving for peace and preparing for war are incompatible with each other."

I guess it's another not-quite-legitimate quote.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2002 4:01 pm 
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Thanks for getting back with the Einstein quote info (I couldn't hold my breath any longer, I swear). There appears to be a sentence that can be added to it:
"Armament is no protection against war but leads to war. Striving for peace and preparing for war are incompatible with each other."
http://myhome.hananet.net/~bumchul/einstein.html

And to Luna, on the Whitman quote. You didn't mention where it was from, so here's the whole thing (I'll probably get in trouble for this)

From: Preface to Leaves of Grass, 1855
Walt Whitman
This is what you shall do: Love the earth and sun and the animals, despise riches, give alms to every one that asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy, devote your income and labor to others, hate tyrants, argue not concerning God, have patience and indulgence toward the people, take off your hat to nothing known or unknown or to any man or number of men, go freely with powerful uneducated persons and with the young and with the mothers of families, read these leaves in the open air every season of every year of your life, re examine all you have been told at school or church or in any book, dismiss whatever insults your own soul, and your very flesh shall be a great poem and have the richest fluency not only in its words but in the silent lines of its lips and face and between the lashes of your eyes and in every motion and joint of your body. . . http://www.vcu.edu/engweb/transcendenta ... e1855.html
http://www.levity.com/digaland/whitman.preface.html
http://www.webdesk.com/walt-whitman/


Last edited by thenostromo on Sat Jun 22, 2002 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2002 4:09 pm 
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Aside from wasting space you won't get in trouble for it, Walt Whitman's works are in the public domain. (teaser: expect to see them and others in their entirety here in the near future.)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2002 4:20 pm 
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Wow, easy access to entire works. That will be major. I like everything you are doing to this site.
I know posting an entire lengthy thingy is a "waste of space." I do that sometimes because a webpage that has something today, in a month from now will be gone. Many times I've just provided a link to something, only to learn later that it has evaporated into thin air.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2002 8:07 am 
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Oversight on my part not to cite the source, thenostromo--just got carried away with the gist of conversation. Leaves of Grass is one of my "bibles."

For the avid source-seeker, since there are a number of purists among us, you may find it interesting to read through Whitman's notebooks on the Web here: http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/wwhtml/wwhome.html

In them, you can see the original notes, ideas jotted down and sketched out, that became part of Leaves of Grass (as well as other works). I think it's thrilling to see these passages in Whitman's own handwriting and know I'm looking at the inception of one of the world's greatest poems.


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 Post subject: MME (Mary Moody Emerson)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2002 1:12 pm 
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Force of habit for me to always track down the source for something.
Great resource website on Whitman.
I had a similar one for Emerson, but forgot to save it and I'll be damned if I can't find it again. Oh well.
Get a load of Thoreau's handwriting at
http://aquarius.as.arizona.edu/~hege/docs/thoreau.html
It must be a bad photo, because I have trouble reading it.

Hey, did you know that good old RW Emerson plagiarized his aunt's writing?

"Mary Moody Emerson and the Origins of Transcendentalism," author Phyllis Cole
http://www.psu.edu/ur/NEWS/news/emerson.html

"Mary has largely been dismissed by generations of Emerson scholars as little more than the beloved but quirky aunt of Ralph Waldo," says Cole, an associate professor of English at Penn State Delaware County in suburban Philadelphia. "But my research shows she is far more than that.
"And though Ralph Waldo Emerson struggled throughout his life to say what his aunt meant to him -- she was always on his mind -- he only told half the story. The truth is that he copied her letters and diary into his own journal, and used them later as a source for his published writing."
Cole researched the book at Harvard University, where Mary Moody Emerson's letters to her nephew are kept, and discovered her long-lost diary in an uncatalogued box. In that diary, she soon found evidence of Mary's role as a primary source of Ralph Waldo Emerson's "Transcendentalism." Previous scholarship largely credits Boston Unitarianism and English Romanticism as his likely inspiration, but Cole found that Mary actually introduced her nephew to both of those traditions.
The Penn State scholar describes Ralph Waldo's "borrowing" of his aunt's writings in detail, a habit he continued through most of his life. At the age of 18, she writes, he began copying her whole letters into his journals; he begged and transcribed her personal journal as much as she would allow. Years later, he filled a thick notebook, titled "MME," with passages from her letters and three more with excerpts from her diary. In 1837, at the early height of his career, Ralph Waldo recorded Mary's name in his journal as first among his seven most vital "benefactors," but wrote that he would rather take gifts of thought from others "as we take apples off a tree without any thanks."
"She was an isolated person by choice," says Cole, "but her independence and her capacity for joy are absolutely wonderful. I most admire the sheer fervor of her spirit and her genius with words, even though she lacked a formal education."


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2002 1:23 pm 
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Wow, first I'd heard of this one. Other famous borrowings you might be interested in: William Wordsworth relied heavily on his sister Dorothy's journals (especially evident in the poem "Daffodils") and F.Scott Fitzgerald borrowed from Zelda. There are certainly myriads more--people had more liberal attitudes toward "borrowing" before the 20th century. And then, of course, there was the old sexist double standard: men were a thousand times more likely to be published than women.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2002 2:43 pm 
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Funny, but I've never focussed too much thought on men being published more than women. But now that you mention it, that would certainly seem to be true. I think there used to be an expression that you don't hear so much anymore: "It's a man's world."
Even though, it is still probably pretty much true.

"Poems are written by men, and not by anonymous splendors. The stronger the man the larger his resentments . . ."
~ Harold Bloom
http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/jacket07/e ... ition.html

Authorship
With respect to the number of women as authors of articles, the picture is quite grim. Of the 974 articles published since 1967, only 11% are written by women, 7% with women as junior authors with male senior authors, 5% with women as senior authors, men as junior authors; 74% were written by men (in 2% of the articles we could not determine the gender of the author).
http://www.acs.appstate.edu/dept/anthro ... /ch02.html

Some feminist historians resented what they saw as a watering-down of the original premise of foregrounding women's experience and achievements, by allowing 'gender history' to be written by men, or to elide into studies of masculinity. Others, both teachers and taught, writers and readers, objected strongly and vigorously to the impenetrability of much of the post-Scott history-writing: in place of women's-history accessibility came gender-history's obscurantist po-mo textual game-playing. Moreover, in the face of so much theoretical emphasis on fluctuating meanings, slithering identities and on diversity rather than commonality, the very original category 'woman' seemed almost to have dissolved before some readers' eyes. Among Scott's most vociferous critics was American academic Joan Hoff: in 'Gender as a Postmodern Category of Paralysis' she attacked poststructuralism's influence upon women's history as depoliticizing and divisive, ethnocentric and elitist. Furiouis, Hoff claimed that now:
"Material experiences become abstract representations drawn almost exclusively from textual analysis; personal identities and all human agency become obsolete, and disembodied subjects are constructed as discourses. Flesh-and-blood women, of course, also become social constructs, according to poststructuralists, with no 'natural' or physiological context except as a set of symbolic meanings constructing sexual difference."
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/gender-studies/e ... ington.htm

from "A Conversation with Ruth Stone":
[Ruth Stone] : Um-hum. Ezra Pound was nasty to a lot of people. That's just my opinion of him. I got sick of the adulation of the generation when I was at the Radcliffe Institute. It's almost always men who think Pound is hot stuff. I don't know any women who think he's great. What's that you've got there?
[J. F. Battaglia] : [reads from Donald Hall's review of Second Hand Coat]
"When Ruth Stone was young few women published and fewer were noticed. Now young women poets proliferate to appropriate praise. In the meantime, we have neglected Ruth Stone... As she grows older, her poems turn devastating without abandoning the absolute resolution she learned back in the 50s. In Second Hand Coat... art mediates pain neither evaded nor paraded. Frequently she addresses a dead man loved and resented, as in 'Scars.' Reading her it becomes us whom she adresses, us whom she begs to believe. Such a poem in its extremity remains memorable, trembles forever at the shadowy clearing's edge."
RS: Donald Hall. That was in the Harvard Book Review, when the book came out.
JB: That's a good review, I think.
RS: It's brief but good. And also, you know—"She's OK."
JB: He doesn't rave.
RS: He doesn't rave. Uh-uh. He never has. I've always been treated that way. There must be something terribly wrong with me. It means I'm not good enough. They all treat me so strangely.
JB: Maybe it's their way of raving.
RS: They take each other so seriously, those men. We've neglected her. And now we give her this, and so forth. I know that women don't respond to me that way. They really think I'm good. They know, they understand my work. I remember men used to tell me, oh your work is wonderful; you don't write like a woman, you write like a man. Not true. I write like a woman. I never have written like a man. Why did they say I wrote like a man?
JB: How do men write?
RS: I just think it's a crazy thing to say. I don't know what it means. They want to put women down, yet they have to praise me, so they say I write like a man.
JB: So saying that you write like a man is praise because men write better than women do?
RS: Absolutely. They all believe that. All of 'em. Do you?
JB: No, but I'm not sure that's what it means.
RS: It does. It does mean that.
JB: And that a man's sensibility is better than a woman's?
RS: Yep. And that men write about really important things.
JB: Men can perceive truth and women can't?
RS: And women are trivial and hysterical and overblown and whatever, you know. Actually, this used to be said a lot when Walter [Stone] and I were at Harvard in the late 40s. That's what they thought.
JB: Do you think that men or women write better love poems?
RS: Offhand, most of the love poems that I've read over my life have probably been written by men, including Shakespeare and certainly John Donne. I think men write more romantic and compelling love poems than women do. Of the women's love poems I've read, most are about loss. Sharon [Olds] writes good sexual poems about love.
http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/ ... neints.htm

from "Her-Story - in these isles - in part"
History, when all is said and done, is usually about men. Men as legislators, men as chief executive officers of a nation. Men as soldiers or warriors of one sort or another. So that women are usually behind. Giving rise to the axiom that behind every great man stands a woman. In a new world order, truly human, women will at least be alongside, and not behind.
http://www.candw.ag/~jardinea/ffhtm/ff970228.htm


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