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 Post subject: Questionable quotations
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2002 7:31 pm 
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I was looking to see if the quote attributed to Nathan Hale was in the database here, and didn't see a topic "Patriotism." (Mike, if you see this, hint hint)
I wasn't about to wade through all the topics that it might be in, so I've just decided to post this here.

The following is found at
http://www.lihistory.com/4/hs413a.htm

"I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country,''
~ Nathan Hale
But are the last words attributed to Hale the ones that he actually said? Once again, not everyone agrees, but it is generally accepted that Hale, familiar with the English writer Joseph Addison, was paraphrasing a line from his play "Cato.''

How beautiful is death, when earn'd by virtue!
Who would not be that youth? What pity is it
That we can die but once to serve our country!

-- Joseph Addison, 1713: "Cato,''
Act 4, Scene 4

A 1777 newspaper article reported Hale as saying that "if he had ten thousand lives, he would lay them all down, if called to it, in defence of his injured, bleeding country.'' Four years later another newspaper story quoted Hale's last words as:
"...my only regret is, that I have not more lives than one to offer in its service.'' Hull's 1848 memoirs give us the pithier version we know today: "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country.''

In the early part of this century, a writer named Watson Sperry wrote in The Hartford Courant:
When Sir William Howe ordered him to be strung up he no doubt meant to make an end to the young American captain, but in fact he made the beginning of him. From that moment young Hale passed from an engaging and capable personality into an enduring national symbol.

In reference to the Nathan Hale Monument:
The first Hale quote cited on the monument is: "I will undertake it.'' He is supposed to have said that when his colonel asked for a volunteer spy from among his junior officers. The remark was first published in 1856 and repeated often by popular writers -- but there's no evidence that Hale ever said it.
The most famous Nathan Hale quote of all? Well, he most likely said something quite similar to it, and it has been refined over the years to this:
"I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country.'' But the plaque reads: "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country.''
http://www.lihistory.com/4/hs413a.htm


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2002 3:11 am 
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Why do I get the feeling that there's a story like this for virtually every quotation that's more than a couple hundred years old?

I added the Hale quotation (attributed) and the Addison one to our Classic Quotes collection.

I also added Patriotism to the list of subjects:

http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/patriotism

I categorized the quotations mentioned in this thread under Patriotism as well as a few I found by searching for "patriot" and "country". Let me know if I've missed any - I'm sure I have.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2002 12:58 pm 
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I came across a very well written biography of Isoroku Yamamoto one time, and this first passage is from that [note: this bio can no longer be found on the Internet; all trace of it appears to have been removed]:

Isoroku Yamamoto had spent years in the United States and Britain as part of the delegations at the Washington and London Naval Talks. These years had given him a firsthand look at American industrial might and moral character, and was convinced to the very center of his being that the only way to possibly win the war he was ordered to prosecute was by a gamble. An all-out air raid on the American naval headquarters in the Pacific, Pearl Harbor. Win in the first 24 hours, then negotiate a settlement favorable to Japan while the US was weak. At this, even, he was dubious. Asked by the Crown Prince to assess the odds of winning the war, he replied, "If necessary, I can run wild for the first six months. Beyond that I have no hope."
As the success of the Pearl Harbor Raid became clear on December 7th, 1941, his staff congratulated him. Admiral Yamamoto was on the Combined Fleet flagship, the battleship Nagato, sitting silently with eyes closed along the wall. He rose and said, "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." Then he excused himself and walked out on to the deck of the Nagato, where he stared out at the sea.
http://www.american-partisan.com/cols/2 ... 4/1207.htm
http://sandysq.gcinet.net/uss_salt_lake ... mamoto.htm

Yamamoto is credited with saying, after the attack on Pearl Harbor, "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." Considerable doubt exists, though, whether he actually ever said (or wrote) anything like that; it was probably invented for the movies.
http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/Isoroku+Yamamoto

I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.
~ATTRIBUTION: Larry Forrester, U.S. screenwriter, Hideo Oguni, and Ryuzo Kikushima. Richard Fleischer, Toshio Masuda, Kinji Fukasaku.
Admiral Yamamoto (Soh Yamamura), Tora! Tora! Tora! Reaction to Pearl Harbor attack (1970).
http://www.bartleby.com/66/77/22577.html

...a month after Pearl Harbor, Yamamoto wrote, in a letter to Ogata Taketora (January 9, 1942), "A military man can scarely pride himself on having 'smitten a sleeping enemy'; in fact, to have pointed it out is more a matter of shame."
Source: Nigel Rees, the Library of Congress' Respectfully Quoted.

'In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States and Great Britain, I will run wild and win victory upon victory. But then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of success.'
~ Admiral Yamamoto in an interview with Shigeharu Matsumoto, a member of the Japanese Cabinet, 1940
http://www.pete.lsu.edu/courses/pete1010/yamamoto.htm


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 Post subject: Einstein quotes
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 7:07 am 
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Sorry to do this, Mike, but I noticed you have this quote attributed to Einstein:
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war."
(Attribute to) Albert Einstein
http://www.ippnw.de/frieden/amberwaves.htm

I have come to the conclusion that this is a paraphrase of something he may have said, but I haven't quite nailed it down yet.
The closest I can come to what he probably said is:

"Henceforth, every nation's foreign policy must be judged at every point by one consideration: does it lead us to a world of law and order or does it lead us back toward anarchy and death? I do not believe that we can prepare for war and at the same time prepare for a world community. When humanity holds in its hand the weapon with which it can commit suicide, I believe that to put more power into the gun is to increase the probability of disaster."
~Albert Einstein

I could find that quote only in Google's cached memory.

“To paraphrase Einstein, you cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war."
~ Rev. Michael Beckwith
http://home.talkcity.com/GaiaWay/emerso ... _World.htm

A country cannot simultaneously prepare and prevent war.
- Albert Einstein
http://quotes.prolix.nu/Authors/?Albert_Einstein


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 5:37 pm 
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These are possible sources for the paraphrase thenostromo suggests:

"Striving for peace and preparing for war are incompatible with each other, and in our time more so than ever." --Einstein, speaking in U.N. radio interview, June 16, 1950, recorded in Einstein's home in Princeton, NJ.

"As long as the possibility of war remains, nations will insist on being as perfectly prepared in a military sense as they can, in order to emerge triumphant in the next war. It will also be impossible to avoid educating the youth in warlike traditions and cultivating narrow national vanity joined to the glorification of the warlike spirit, as long as people have to be prepared for occasions when such a spirit will be needed for the purpose of war. To arm is to give one's voice and make one's preparations, not for peace but for war." --Einstein, writing in Mein Weltbild, Amsterdam: Querido, Verlang, 1934.

However, it's still possible Einstein said exactly this phrase attributed to him -- "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." Passionately committed to unilateral disarmament, he wrote extensively and exhaustively on the subject, appealing to heads of state and the general populace to take significant actions in the cause of permanent peace. In doing so, he often varied his phrases to say essentially the same thing: Logically, you can't be serious about peace while building up armaments.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 6:59 pm 
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Another potential source of confusion with Einstein is that he may have written (or said) it in German. So the source could be a more liberal translation of one of the things he really said.

I'll wait for my copy of "The Expanded Quotable Einstein" to arrive from Amazon.com to resolve this one.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:09 pm 
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Ok, I'm holding my breath starting NOW! :wink:
I just want to say to Luna that you made someone very very happy on "that other quotation website" I participate on. I gave you full credit.
I'll be curious to see what Mike comes up with.

And I guess to stay on topic, another "questionable quotation" that floats to the top of the swamp from time to time is the bogus "Chief Seattle's Reply" .
Rather than copy and paste a bunch of stuff, here are a couple webpages that talk about it.

Chief Seattle
http://www.webcom.com/duane/seattle.html
http://www.halcyon.com/arborhts/chiefsea.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:26 pm 
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Looks like we got a "horse race" going here with the post count. Luna, at least a few of yours don't count because I remember you were just "test" posting to see what would happen with the little squares under our username.
Here's some quotes about things that people "didn't say."

I didn't say that I didn't say it. I said that I didn't say that I said it. I want to make that very clear.
~George Romney

I apologize for what was said even though I didn't say it.
~ Donald R Manes, former Queens Borough President
On report that he called NYC Mayor Edward Koch a crook, WQXR Radio 3 Feb 86

"I really didn't say everything I said."
~Yogi Berra

Calvin Coolidge didn't say much, and when he did he didn't say much.
~ Will Rogers

"He didn't say that. He was reading what was given to him in a speech."
~Richard Darman, director of OMB, explaining why President Bush wasn't following up on his campaign pledge that there would be no loss of wetlands.

And this one about "should have said."

I was driving down the highway, and I'm swerving all over, coz I'm trying to change the radio, and just as I get the old one taken out I hear this traffic cop behind me, "Whee-oo, whee-oo, whee-oo!" Well, I shouldn't make fun of his speech impediment. He asks me to walk in a straight line, so I do, then he asks me, "You call that a straight line?" Well, I should have said, I should have said, "Yes." But I was nervous and the only thing I could think of was "Well, Officer Pythagoras, the closest you'll ever come to a straight line is if they do an electroencephalagram of your own brainwave."
~ Emo Philips


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2002 6:09 am 
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I'm falling behind in the horse race so I'd better post again.

There's a nice discussion of the Chief Seattle thing in the book "They Never Said It".


P. S. You're allowed to mention quoteland.com here. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2002 6:24 am 
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This is not just a horse race. It is more like the Kentucky Derby. :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2002 4:43 pm 
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Thanks for the credit, thenostromo -- I'm always happy if I can make someone else happy. :D

As for the horse race, if I remember correctly, mgm said he set the next "prize" at the 80 post mark. However, with the insanity of my life lately, just call me "War Emblem" -- my money is on you.

Speaking of making people happy, here's a Walt Whitman quotation that beautifully sums up my spiritual goals, and I'm always looking for an opportunity to share it:

"This is what you shall do: Love the earth and sun and the animals, despise riches, give alms to everyone that asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy, devote your income and labor to others, argue not concerning God . . ."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 9:20 am 
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Luna wrote:
here's a Walt Whitman quotation that beautifully sums up my spiritual goals, and I'm always looking for an opportunity to share it:

"This is what you shall do: Love the earth and sun and the animals, despise riches, give alms to everyone that asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy, devote your income and labor to others, argue not concerning God . . ."



Luke:
6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
6:29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
6:34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2002 2:05 pm 
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According to Joe Jackson, the most famous line to emerge from the Black Sox Scandal was never actually spoken.
A newspaper reported that as Jackson was walking through a parking lot after the grand jury hearings, a small boy walked toward Joe and said, "Say it ain't so, Joe."
Joe was quoted as replying "It's so kid, it's so."
Jackson said he left the courtroom, a deputy sheriff asked for a ride, the two got into the car together and left. No one else spoke to him.
http://www.chicagohs.org/history/blacksox/joe3.html

http://216.239.35.100/search?q=cache:y4 ... en&ie=UTF8

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give
into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
~Luke 6: 37-38


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 5:12 am 
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Here's an interesting anecdote for this thread--I'm pasting it from the Merriam-Webster Web site's "Word of the Day" for today:

"In the catbird seat" was among the numerous folksy expressions with which the legendary baseball broadcaster Red Barber delighted listeners. Some say he invented the expression, others say that he dug it up from his Southern origins. But the facts actually have an odd twist. In a 1942 short story titled "The Catbird Seat," James Thurber featured a character, Mrs. Barrows, who liked to use the phrase. Another character, Joey Hart, explained that Mrs. Barrows must have picked up the expression from Red Barber. To Red, according to Joey, "sitting in the catbird seat" meant "'sitting pretty,' like a batter with three balls and no strikes on him." But, according to Barber's daughter, it was only after Barber read Thurber's story that he started using "in the catbird seat" himself!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 4:12 pm 
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Heh, thanks for reminding me of one of my favorite Thurber stories. There's an online copy of it here if anyone would like to read the whole thing:

http://www.crown.edu/humanities/ratledg ... atbird.htm

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