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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2002 10:43 am 
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I have been trying to find out the source of a quote attributed to John Stewart Mill (the famous utilitarian writer). A great many sources attribute it to JSM, but nobody gives a reference to any of his writings. The quote is:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

Any help?

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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2002 12:27 pm 
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Well, I found this...

“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded sense of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse... A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. As long as justice and injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight for ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when need is, to do battle for the one against the other.”
-John Stuart Mill (1806-1873), “The Contest In America,”
Fraser’s Magazine, February 1862

Forwarded to The John Galt Press by
Dr. Douglas Hodgkin
Professor of Political Science
Bates College
http://www.johngaltpress.org/2001-10/le ... ditor.html


And this:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and
degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth
a war, is worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for
firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish
purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other
human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their
own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for
an honest purpose by their free choice, -- is often the means of their
regeneration. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for,
nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety,
is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and
kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. As long as justice
and injustice have not terminated their ever- renewing fight for
ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when
need is, to do battle for the one against the other."

-- John Stuart Mill, "The Contest in America," Dissertations and Discussions, vol. 1, p.26 (1868). First published in Fraser's Magazine, February 1862.
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lo ... 9/2nd.html




I also found a fairly expensive sculpture that seems to attribute the quote to the wrong person, heh heh heh:

Price: $963.00
Media: Mixed: Rag board & paper, dirt, barbed wire, acrylics, etc.
Dimensions: 23.75" x 25.5" x 9"
Description: Calligraphic sculpture. Mixed media, including ragmat acid-free foamcore, fibre, acrylics, latex paint sand, barbed wire and gouache on rag paper. The letterforms are hand-cut Roman capitals and Gothic blackletter. The base is wood with an integral wood frame. The words were spoken by a contemporary of mine during the Vietnam War.
Text: "WAR IS AN UGLY THING, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse; A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight - nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety - is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." - Major James Morris, U.S. Army, 30 June 1971

_________________
Regards,
Lou
I feel like a fugitive from th' law of averages.
— Bill Mauldin


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2002 12:28 pm 
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QuoteMaster
QuoteMaster

Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2002 1:08 pm
Posts: 102
Well, I found this...

“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded sense of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse... A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. As long as justice and injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight for ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when need is, to do battle for the one against the other.”
-John Stuart Mill (1806-1873), “The Contest In America,”
Fraser’s Magazine, February 1862

Forwarded to The John Galt Press by
Dr. Douglas Hodgkin
Professor of Political Science
Bates College
http://www.johngaltpress.org/2001-10/le ... ditor.html


And this:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and
degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth
a war, is worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for
firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish
purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other
human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their
own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for
an honest purpose by their free choice, -- is often the means of their
regeneration. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for,
nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety,
is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and
kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. As long as justice
and injustice have not terminated their ever- renewing fight for
ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when
need is, to do battle for the one against the other."

-- John Stuart Mill, "The Contest in America," Dissertations and Discussions, vol. 1, p.26 (1868). First published in Fraser's Magazine, February 1862.
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lo ... 9/2nd.html




I also found a fairly expensive sculpture that seems to attribute the quote to the wrong person, heh heh heh:

Price: $963.00
Media: Mixed: Rag board & paper, dirt, barbed wire, acrylics, etc.
Dimensions: 23.75" x 25.5" x 9"
Description: Calligraphic sculpture. Mixed media, including ragmat acid-free foamcore, fibre, acrylics, latex paint sand, barbed wire and gouache on rag paper. The letterforms are hand-cut Roman capitals and Gothic blackletter. The base is wood with an integral wood frame. The words were spoken by a contemporary of mine during the Vietnam War.
Text: "WAR IS AN UGLY THING, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse; A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight - nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety - is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." - Major James Morris, U.S. Army, 30 June 1971

_________________
Regards,
Lou
I feel like a fugitive from th' law of averages.
— Bill Mauldin


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 Post subject: JSM War is ugly quote
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2002 12:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2002 10:36 am
Posts: 2
Location: Virginia
Thank you. At least I have A source for this quote now. It always bothered me that I could not find it in any of JSMs books - at least any that I have been able to search.

_________________
Fritz Brown


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