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 Post subject: Is Socrates an author?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 2:57 pm 
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I noticed that Socrates is listed as an "author" in your database. Is he really?
Did he leave any written work? Are we even 100% sure that he could even write?

But, my dearest Agathon, it is truth which you cannot contradict; you can without any difficulty contradict Socrates.
~Plato, Symposium

The Socratic Problem
http://www.san.beck.org/SocraticProblem.html

Plato (c.429-347 B.C.)
An Athenian, Plato was the student of Socrates and the teacher of Aristotle.
http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/ ... gloss.html
http://mnannie.tripod.com/new_philosophy.html
http://www.hol.gr/greece/texts/aristo2.txt
http://users.mo-net.com/mlindste/socrates.html

"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance."
-- Socrates 469-399 BC From Diogenes Laertius, Lives of Eminent Philosophers,
bk. II, sec. 31
http://astro.umsystem.edu/apml/ARCHIVES ... 01168.html

Confucius and Socrates Compared
http://www.san.beck.org/C&S-Compared.html


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 5:48 am 
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Is Socrates an author? I don't know but I am certain that Nostrdamus could answer the question with authority. Too bad he is no longer around.

Socrates was an ex convict? What was he in prison for?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 6:00 am 
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I've never thought much about the terminology - I use "author" as a generic word for "person being quoted". I haven't thought of a better word for it. Even Bartlett's Familiar Quotations has an "Index of Authors".

Anyway, if Kilgore Trout and Mark Twain and Voltaire and Saki can be "authors", I think Socrates, whoever he may have been, qualifies.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 6:18 am 
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Socrates was an ex convict? What was he in prison for?

I don't think Socrates was ever an "ex"-convict. As I recall (and I, too, suffer from Anhueser's Disease) he was convicted of corrupting the youth of Athens, or some such nonsense, and died in prison.

As to his being an author, I recall that he was not responsible for any written works, but that we know of his philosophy through Plato. Nevertheless, he was certainly an author according to to the definition in Mirriam-Webster Online:

Author
1 a : one that originates or creates : SOURCE <software authors> <the author of this crime> b capitalized : GOD 1

Homer is another great literary figure who never wrote anything down yet the seminal works of Western literature are his.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2002 11:08 pm 
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I know. Silly me.
I was just on my soapbox there for a bit.
It does amaze me that there are so many quotes attributed to just "Socrates," with no other mention at all.
I understand the bit about what "author" means when it comes to quotes.
So take it one step further in defining.
Socrates "authored" absolutely nothing. Period.
Everything attributed to him is a result of what someone else claims that he said.
Everything attributed to Socrates, accurately with source, in my humble opinion, if it is to be accepted with authority, should say where it came from.
An example of where this is usually carried out is with Samuel Johnson quotes. There are a ton of quotes attributed to Johnson that are actually from Boswell's recollections in "Life of Johnson." Very frequently you will see the attribution "Samuel Johnson, Boswell, 'Life of Johnson'"
That is what I am getting at. You very rarely see that sort of respect for the source when it come to Socrates. It's usually, almost always, just "Socrates." Period.
As far as Socrates goes, I still am not one hundred percent convinced that he even existed at all. This "man" could in fact be made up.
I mean, really, how could such an important man leave no mark at all?
Of his own, that is.

"Socrates left behind no written works. Most of what we know about his method of teaching is contained in Plato's works. He taught that there are no cut-and-dried answers to the big questions of life. We learn truth through the process of continual questioning. We can infer from Plato's dialogues Socrates own beliefs as well. Primary among these is that integrity of character is paramount; all else is nought if the soul is pure."
http://www.motivated4success.com/People/socrates.shtml

Socratic Method and Scientific Method
http://www.soci.niu.edu/~phildept/Dye/method.html
http://dir.yahoo.com/Arts/Humanities/Ph ... 399_B_C__/

There is more proof that a mouse named Mickey flew airplanes in combat against the Nazis than there is that Socrates existed. Socrates was mentioned by Plato and in one play by someone else (although many books have been lost so there could have been more). Mickey the pilot against the Nazi menace appeared in many newspapers and in movies and books. This is an example of something that cannot be proven or disproven.
http://www.angelfire.com/nh/starfleetac ... ethod.html

John Silber on Socrates and the scientific method.
"Socrates taught us to prize those persons of knowledge, candor, and good will who challenge our views, and to be especially grateful when we are shown to be mistaken. For then we exchange a false opinion for a truer one. The Socratic dialectic is not dissimilar to the scientific method, which proceeds by proposing hypotheses to be tested by logical analysis for their conceptual coherence and tested empirically for their confirmation or disproof by relevant facts. Apart from divine revelation, to which I am not priveleged, there is no means of attaining absolute truth. Our confidence in the outcome of a Socratic argument or a scientific experiment derives not from direct proof of its truth but rather from the absence of its disproof. We never reach the truth, only the likeliest account, which may require revision or even rejection on the basis of subsequent evidence and argument.
"It follows that those who seek the truth as closely as is humanly possible will not begin with conclusions and the look for arguments and facts to support them. Rather, they will examine all relevant facts and arguments in the hope of finally arriving at the truest account of the subject of their inquiry. Those who follow the former procedure have abandoned the search for truth in the defense of an ideology from which they will not deviate no matter what contravening arguments or evidence may be presented. Those who seek the truth, by contrast, will follow the second procedure of inquiry and their conclusions will in consequence be subject to change."
~From John Silber, "Procedure or dogma: the core of libralism." The New Criterion, May 1999, pp 4-12.
http://world.std.com/~awolpert/gtr327.html


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 2:16 am 
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Well, I'm not one hundred percent convinced that Shakespeare existed at all, but my policy is to trust common wisdom until someone proves otherwise.

I will mention some of these issues in the biography of Socrates that will soon appear on the site, though.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 1:43 pm 
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The Greeks and the Romans were both good record keepers. As I understand it, there is quite a bit of evidence in Athenian records that Socrates indeed was a citizen of Athens, was tried there, and died there. On the other hand, there has been no evidence discovered in Roman records suggesting that Jesus ever lived. This doesn't prove anything, of course, but it's a little strange considering that Mary and Joseph traveled to Bethlehem to be counted in a Roman census.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 2:08 pm 
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Every explicit duality is an implicit unity.

--Alan Watts


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 2:30 pm 
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thenostromo wrote:
John Silber on Socrates and the scientific method.
"The Socratic dialectic is not dissimilar to the scientific method, which proceeds by proposing hypotheses to be tested by logical analysis for their conceptual coherence and tested empirically for their confirmation or disproof by relevant facts. Apart from divine revelation, to which I am not priveleged, there is no means of attaining absolute truth. Our confidence in the outcome of a Socratic argument or a scientific experiment derives not from direct proof of its truth but rather from the absence of its disproof. We never reach the truth, only the likeliest account, which may require revision or even rejection on the basis of subsequent evidence and argument.
"It follows that those who seek the truth...
~From John Silber, "Procedure or dogma: the core of libralism." The New Criterion, May 1999, pp 4-12.
http://world.std.com/~awolpert/gtr327.html


To say that "The Socratic dialectic is not dissimilar to the scientific method" is like saying that the earth is not dissimilar to Pluto. You can make a case for both statements. On the other hand, you can't say that either "is similar to" to the other. A case in which two things equal to the same thing are not equal to one another. Starting there, I'd like to break that whole mess down to symbolic logic and run a tautology — and I would if I remembered anything I was taught in college.

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I feel like a fugitive from th' law of averages.
— Bill Mauldin


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:21 pm 
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Socrates didn't write anything; we know of him comes from Plato, his student.
Socrates is an interesting philosopher indeed, but he was also a hypocrite. Socrates believed (supposedly--we don't really KNOW, do we?) that the worst thing one could do would be to suffer injustice, and yet decided TO suffer injustice by his own free will.
In The Crito, Socrates is talking with his friend/pupil Crito about all of this. At this point in time, Socrates is on our equivalent of death row, for he refused to reform his behavior (practicing elenchus and putting strange ideas in other's heads) and Crito is asking him why he won't escape.
Although Socrates believed what he was doing was right, he still wouldn't break out of prison. But if he was unjustly imprisioned, then shouldn't he haveleave? He didn't leave because he believed in following the law, but should that override the most important part of his theory?
Maybe he wanted to die...maybe it was an indirect form of suicide for him. But what a horrible way to die...drinking hemlock. UG.


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 Post subject: Socrates
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 3:44 am 
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Socrates, in fact never wrote anything down. The way we know about him are from his writings from Plato and other philosophers. Jesus aswell never wrote anything down.


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 Post subject: The Father of Philosophy
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 12:07 pm 
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Neither Socrates The Buddha or Jesus wrote anything down. Only goes to show that situationism was understood before the French got to it?

And what's this piffle concerning no evidence of Socrates? Plato was to Socrates what Boswell was to Johnson and Plato instructed Aristotle (he wrote quite a bit sic). :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 4:27 am 
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And also - concerning Shakespeare and Jesus and their existence:

First Jesus: He is mentioned in the writing of Josepheus the Roman historian. Plus, whether you like it or not, the gospels and dead sea scrolls are exactly what perniketty historians require as evidence. Third party - quotes -family trees - brothers - mother - father's job.

The dead sea scrolls apparently ( not read them myself) put Jesus in a far more solid local perspective politically. ie he was no fan of the Romans and was far more involved in the political underground.

Shakespeare: one of the reasons some people dispute this fella's existence and/or the fact he wrote the plays (thanks for the authorship argument) boils down to the fact he didn't come from London/established lineaged elite; how could he be so smart/be aware of so many classical texts? And that's the thing about dumb people. So hung up on what they know they miss the simple truth. Check out BEN Johnson. He was a contemporary of Shakespeares. Rival in fact, and they had literary spats. If somebody was using a ghost writer today - and making money - do you think the other would have something to say? Well Johnson never did.
:roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:34 am 
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I don't think that it matters if a person is an autor in the literal sense or not.... the fact is, their words are more important than their actual contributions to the literary world


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 Post subject: Socrates
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 8:23 am 
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I Do think Socrates could be added as an Author. Any person who has the capability to think and Write, could be called an author, no matter even if he could not write and someone else does.Anywayz what does the WORD Author mean then? :wink: :?:

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